How is it possible that $textrm{HK}=textrm{G}$?
$begingroup$
For the following problem:
If $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are distinct subgroups of $textrm{G}$ of index $2$, then $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is a normal subgroup of $textrm{G}$ of index $4$.
It is obvious that both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are normal subgroups since both have index $2$. Hence their intersection $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is also normal.
The main issue comes with proving that it has an index $4$, using 2nd Isomorphism Theorem. Clearly $displaystylefrac{textrm{H}}{textrm{H}captextrm{K}}$ is isomorphic to $displaystylefrac{textrm{HK}}{textrm{K}}$ and using this we can show that $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ that index $4$. But on this forum, I have seen another proof of this problem where a person wrote that $textrm{H}textrm{K} = textrm{G}$.
How the heck are they equal? I'm having extreme difficulty in proving this.
Has this got something to do with both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ being distinct ?
abstract-algebra group-theory normal-subgroups group-homomorphism
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
For the following problem:
If $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are distinct subgroups of $textrm{G}$ of index $2$, then $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is a normal subgroup of $textrm{G}$ of index $4$.
It is obvious that both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are normal subgroups since both have index $2$. Hence their intersection $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is also normal.
The main issue comes with proving that it has an index $4$, using 2nd Isomorphism Theorem. Clearly $displaystylefrac{textrm{H}}{textrm{H}captextrm{K}}$ is isomorphic to $displaystylefrac{textrm{HK}}{textrm{K}}$ and using this we can show that $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ that index $4$. But on this forum, I have seen another proof of this problem where a person wrote that $textrm{H}textrm{K} = textrm{G}$.
How the heck are they equal? I'm having extreme difficulty in proving this.
Has this got something to do with both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ being distinct ?
abstract-algebra group-theory normal-subgroups group-homomorphism
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
1
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
2
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
1
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
For the following problem:
If $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are distinct subgroups of $textrm{G}$ of index $2$, then $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is a normal subgroup of $textrm{G}$ of index $4$.
It is obvious that both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are normal subgroups since both have index $2$. Hence their intersection $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is also normal.
The main issue comes with proving that it has an index $4$, using 2nd Isomorphism Theorem. Clearly $displaystylefrac{textrm{H}}{textrm{H}captextrm{K}}$ is isomorphic to $displaystylefrac{textrm{HK}}{textrm{K}}$ and using this we can show that $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ that index $4$. But on this forum, I have seen another proof of this problem where a person wrote that $textrm{H}textrm{K} = textrm{G}$.
How the heck are they equal? I'm having extreme difficulty in proving this.
Has this got something to do with both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ being distinct ?
abstract-algebra group-theory normal-subgroups group-homomorphism
$endgroup$
For the following problem:
If $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are distinct subgroups of $textrm{G}$ of index $2$, then $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is a normal subgroup of $textrm{G}$ of index $4$.
It is obvious that both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ are normal subgroups since both have index $2$. Hence their intersection $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ is also normal.
The main issue comes with proving that it has an index $4$, using 2nd Isomorphism Theorem. Clearly $displaystylefrac{textrm{H}}{textrm{H}captextrm{K}}$ is isomorphic to $displaystylefrac{textrm{HK}}{textrm{K}}$ and using this we can show that $textrm{H}captextrm{K}$ that index $4$. But on this forum, I have seen another proof of this problem where a person wrote that $textrm{H}textrm{K} = textrm{G}$.
How the heck are they equal? I'm having extreme difficulty in proving this.
Has this got something to do with both $textrm{H}$ and $textrm{K}$ being distinct ?
abstract-algebra group-theory normal-subgroups group-homomorphism
abstract-algebra group-theory normal-subgroups group-homomorphism
edited Dec 30 '18 at 11:42
Derek Holt
52.8k53570
52.8k53570
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:22
Minto PMinto P
415
415
$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
1
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
2
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
1
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
1
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
2
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
1
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
1
1
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
2
2
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
1
1
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
We first remark, in general, if $G$ is a group (not necessarily finite) and $H$ is a subgroup of index $2$, $H$ must be normal. This is because the left and right cosets of $H$ necessarily coincide: there is one and only one partition of $G$ into $2$ parts such that one of the parts is $H$.
It follows that for this problem, $H$, $K$, and $H cap K$ are all normal. In particular, this means $HK$ is a subgroup. It suffices to show that $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$. This will imply that $H cap K$ has index $4$ in $G$.
Observe that $HK = G$, since $H, K$ are distinct maximal subgroups. Moreover, by one of the isomorphism theorems, we have that $H/(H cap K) cong (HK)/K cong G/K$. Hence $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It has to do with $H$ and $K$ being distinct and having index $2$: these hypotheses imply that none of them is contained in the other. So take an element $hin Hsmallsetminus K$. Then $;G=hKcup K$ since $K$ has index $2$. Also, since both $hK,Ksubset HK$, we have $G=HK$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$H,K$ have index $2$. This means that:
$H,K$ are normal.
$H,K$ are maximal.
Indeed, let $M$ be a proper subgroup of $G$ containing $H$. Then $M/H$ is a proper subgroup of $G/H$. Since
$G/H$ is the group with two elements, it follows that $M/H$ is trivial, i.e. $M=H$. The same holds for $K$.By maximality of $H$ and $K$, you have that either $HK=G$ or $HK=H$ or $HK=K$. But the latter two can hold only for $H=HK=K$ (and this contradicts the hypothesis).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
We first remark, in general, if $G$ is a group (not necessarily finite) and $H$ is a subgroup of index $2$, $H$ must be normal. This is because the left and right cosets of $H$ necessarily coincide: there is one and only one partition of $G$ into $2$ parts such that one of the parts is $H$.
It follows that for this problem, $H$, $K$, and $H cap K$ are all normal. In particular, this means $HK$ is a subgroup. It suffices to show that $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$. This will imply that $H cap K$ has index $4$ in $G$.
Observe that $HK = G$, since $H, K$ are distinct maximal subgroups. Moreover, by one of the isomorphism theorems, we have that $H/(H cap K) cong (HK)/K cong G/K$. Hence $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We first remark, in general, if $G$ is a group (not necessarily finite) and $H$ is a subgroup of index $2$, $H$ must be normal. This is because the left and right cosets of $H$ necessarily coincide: there is one and only one partition of $G$ into $2$ parts such that one of the parts is $H$.
It follows that for this problem, $H$, $K$, and $H cap K$ are all normal. In particular, this means $HK$ is a subgroup. It suffices to show that $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$. This will imply that $H cap K$ has index $4$ in $G$.
Observe that $HK = G$, since $H, K$ are distinct maximal subgroups. Moreover, by one of the isomorphism theorems, we have that $H/(H cap K) cong (HK)/K cong G/K$. Hence $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$, as desired.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We first remark, in general, if $G$ is a group (not necessarily finite) and $H$ is a subgroup of index $2$, $H$ must be normal. This is because the left and right cosets of $H$ necessarily coincide: there is one and only one partition of $G$ into $2$ parts such that one of the parts is $H$.
It follows that for this problem, $H$, $K$, and $H cap K$ are all normal. In particular, this means $HK$ is a subgroup. It suffices to show that $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$. This will imply that $H cap K$ has index $4$ in $G$.
Observe that $HK = G$, since $H, K$ are distinct maximal subgroups. Moreover, by one of the isomorphism theorems, we have that $H/(H cap K) cong (HK)/K cong G/K$. Hence $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$, as desired.
$endgroup$
We first remark, in general, if $G$ is a group (not necessarily finite) and $H$ is a subgroup of index $2$, $H$ must be normal. This is because the left and right cosets of $H$ necessarily coincide: there is one and only one partition of $G$ into $2$ parts such that one of the parts is $H$.
It follows that for this problem, $H$, $K$, and $H cap K$ are all normal. In particular, this means $HK$ is a subgroup. It suffices to show that $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$. This will imply that $H cap K$ has index $4$ in $G$.
Observe that $HK = G$, since $H, K$ are distinct maximal subgroups. Moreover, by one of the isomorphism theorems, we have that $H/(H cap K) cong (HK)/K cong G/K$. Hence $H cap K$ has index $2$ in $H$, as desired.
answered Dec 30 '18 at 11:54
MathematicsStudent1122MathematicsStudent1122
8,56822466
8,56822466
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
$begingroup$
Good answer! This one is clearest to me so far; @Bernard's, most elegant.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It has to do with $H$ and $K$ being distinct and having index $2$: these hypotheses imply that none of them is contained in the other. So take an element $hin Hsmallsetminus K$. Then $;G=hKcup K$ since $K$ has index $2$. Also, since both $hK,Ksubset HK$, we have $G=HK$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It has to do with $H$ and $K$ being distinct and having index $2$: these hypotheses imply that none of them is contained in the other. So take an element $hin Hsmallsetminus K$. Then $;G=hKcup K$ since $K$ has index $2$. Also, since both $hK,Ksubset HK$, we have $G=HK$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It has to do with $H$ and $K$ being distinct and having index $2$: these hypotheses imply that none of them is contained in the other. So take an element $hin Hsmallsetminus K$. Then $;G=hKcup K$ since $K$ has index $2$. Also, since both $hK,Ksubset HK$, we have $G=HK$.
$endgroup$
It has to do with $H$ and $K$ being distinct and having index $2$: these hypotheses imply that none of them is contained in the other. So take an element $hin Hsmallsetminus K$. Then $;G=hKcup K$ since $K$ has index $2$. Also, since both $hK,Ksubset HK$, we have $G=HK$.
edited Dec 30 '18 at 12:00
answered Dec 30 '18 at 11:46
BernardBernard
119k639112
119k639112
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$H,K$ have index $2$. This means that:
$H,K$ are normal.
$H,K$ are maximal.
Indeed, let $M$ be a proper subgroup of $G$ containing $H$. Then $M/H$ is a proper subgroup of $G/H$. Since
$G/H$ is the group with two elements, it follows that $M/H$ is trivial, i.e. $M=H$. The same holds for $K$.By maximality of $H$ and $K$, you have that either $HK=G$ or $HK=H$ or $HK=K$. But the latter two can hold only for $H=HK=K$ (and this contradicts the hypothesis).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$H,K$ have index $2$. This means that:
$H,K$ are normal.
$H,K$ are maximal.
Indeed, let $M$ be a proper subgroup of $G$ containing $H$. Then $M/H$ is a proper subgroup of $G/H$. Since
$G/H$ is the group with two elements, it follows that $M/H$ is trivial, i.e. $M=H$. The same holds for $K$.By maximality of $H$ and $K$, you have that either $HK=G$ or $HK=H$ or $HK=K$. But the latter two can hold only for $H=HK=K$ (and this contradicts the hypothesis).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$H,K$ have index $2$. This means that:
$H,K$ are normal.
$H,K$ are maximal.
Indeed, let $M$ be a proper subgroup of $G$ containing $H$. Then $M/H$ is a proper subgroup of $G/H$. Since
$G/H$ is the group with two elements, it follows that $M/H$ is trivial, i.e. $M=H$. The same holds for $K$.By maximality of $H$ and $K$, you have that either $HK=G$ or $HK=H$ or $HK=K$. But the latter two can hold only for $H=HK=K$ (and this contradicts the hypothesis).
$endgroup$
$H,K$ have index $2$. This means that:
$H,K$ are normal.
$H,K$ are maximal.
Indeed, let $M$ be a proper subgroup of $G$ containing $H$. Then $M/H$ is a proper subgroup of $G/H$. Since
$G/H$ is the group with two elements, it follows that $M/H$ is trivial, i.e. $M=H$. The same holds for $K$.By maximality of $H$ and $K$, you have that either $HK=G$ or $HK=H$ or $HK=K$. But the latter two can hold only for $H=HK=K$ (and this contradicts the hypothesis).
answered Dec 30 '18 at 11:52
CrostulCrostul
27.7k22352
27.7k22352
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
$begingroup$
I like the style & format of this answer.
$endgroup$
– Shaun
Dec 30 '18 at 12:01
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
$H$ and $K$ are maximal subgroups of $G$. This follows from Lagarange's theorem. Since $H subset HK$, it follows that $HK=G$.
$endgroup$
– Crostul
Dec 30 '18 at 11:25
$begingroup$
An addendum to Crostul's answer: $H$ and $K$ distinct implies $HK not = H$.
$endgroup$
– mathworker21
Dec 30 '18 at 11:28
1
$begingroup$
I suggest you use a less informal title, as it may scare off certain people.
$endgroup$
– Math_QED
Dec 30 '18 at 11:33
2
$begingroup$
@Crostul You're invoking Lagrange. Is $G$ assumed finite?
$endgroup$
– MathematicsStudent1122
Dec 30 '18 at 11:35
1
$begingroup$
Thank you, @Derek Holt, for editing the title. Minto, please avoid language you wouldn't use in front of your professor.
$endgroup$
– Ennar
Dec 30 '18 at 11:46