Question on the reasoning behind determining surjectivity of a function












1














I understand the idea of surjectivity and its definition:
"A function f is surjective if f:A->B if $forall yin Y,exists x in X$ such that $y=f(x)$"
However I have a question on the following excerpt from a textbook:
"Given the function f:R->R where $f(x)=x+1$ determine whether the function is a surjection.(R for the set of all real numbers)



Solution: for sujectivity we rewrite the definition as a universal implication:



$yin R implies exists x in R $ such that $y=f(x)$
'
I understand up to this point. But my issue is with the following:



' then we put the definition of the function into this implication: $yin RLeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1LeftarrowRightarrow x=y-1$ which tells us that given y in the codomain R then $y=f(x)$ if $x=y-1$. Hence f is surjective'



My question refers to the first part of the implication " $yin R LeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1$"
How/ does y being in the codomain imply that y=f(x) ? (does it?)










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 5




    By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
    – saulspatz
    Dec 27 '18 at 18:56












  • @saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
    – Mark S.
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:46






  • 1




    But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
    – stochasticmrfox
    Dec 27 '18 at 20:11












  • @stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
    – Mark S.
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:08
















1














I understand the idea of surjectivity and its definition:
"A function f is surjective if f:A->B if $forall yin Y,exists x in X$ such that $y=f(x)$"
However I have a question on the following excerpt from a textbook:
"Given the function f:R->R where $f(x)=x+1$ determine whether the function is a surjection.(R for the set of all real numbers)



Solution: for sujectivity we rewrite the definition as a universal implication:



$yin R implies exists x in R $ such that $y=f(x)$
'
I understand up to this point. But my issue is with the following:



' then we put the definition of the function into this implication: $yin RLeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1LeftarrowRightarrow x=y-1$ which tells us that given y in the codomain R then $y=f(x)$ if $x=y-1$. Hence f is surjective'



My question refers to the first part of the implication " $yin R LeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1$"
How/ does y being in the codomain imply that y=f(x) ? (does it?)










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 5




    By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
    – saulspatz
    Dec 27 '18 at 18:56












  • @saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
    – Mark S.
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:46






  • 1




    But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
    – stochasticmrfox
    Dec 27 '18 at 20:11












  • @stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
    – Mark S.
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:08














1












1








1







I understand the idea of surjectivity and its definition:
"A function f is surjective if f:A->B if $forall yin Y,exists x in X$ such that $y=f(x)$"
However I have a question on the following excerpt from a textbook:
"Given the function f:R->R where $f(x)=x+1$ determine whether the function is a surjection.(R for the set of all real numbers)



Solution: for sujectivity we rewrite the definition as a universal implication:



$yin R implies exists x in R $ such that $y=f(x)$
'
I understand up to this point. But my issue is with the following:



' then we put the definition of the function into this implication: $yin RLeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1LeftarrowRightarrow x=y-1$ which tells us that given y in the codomain R then $y=f(x)$ if $x=y-1$. Hence f is surjective'



My question refers to the first part of the implication " $yin R LeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1$"
How/ does y being in the codomain imply that y=f(x) ? (does it?)










share|cite|improve this question















I understand the idea of surjectivity and its definition:
"A function f is surjective if f:A->B if $forall yin Y,exists x in X$ such that $y=f(x)$"
However I have a question on the following excerpt from a textbook:
"Given the function f:R->R where $f(x)=x+1$ determine whether the function is a surjection.(R for the set of all real numbers)



Solution: for sujectivity we rewrite the definition as a universal implication:



$yin R implies exists x in R $ such that $y=f(x)$
'
I understand up to this point. But my issue is with the following:



' then we put the definition of the function into this implication: $yin RLeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1LeftarrowRightarrow x=y-1$ which tells us that given y in the codomain R then $y=f(x)$ if $x=y-1$. Hence f is surjective'



My question refers to the first part of the implication " $yin R LeftarrowRightarrow y=f(x)LeftarrowRightarrow y=x+1$"
How/ does y being in the codomain imply that y=f(x) ? (does it?)







functions foundations






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 27 '18 at 20:16

























asked Dec 27 '18 at 18:47









stochasticmrfox

506




506








  • 5




    By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
    – saulspatz
    Dec 27 '18 at 18:56












  • @saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
    – Mark S.
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:46






  • 1




    But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
    – stochasticmrfox
    Dec 27 '18 at 20:11












  • @stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
    – Mark S.
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:08














  • 5




    By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
    – saulspatz
    Dec 27 '18 at 18:56












  • @saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
    – Mark S.
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:46






  • 1




    But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
    – stochasticmrfox
    Dec 27 '18 at 20:11












  • @stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
    – Mark S.
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:08








5




5




By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
– saulspatz
Dec 27 '18 at 18:56






By definition, $y$ is in the codomain if and only if there exists an $x$ such that $y=f(x).$ What's the problem?
– saulspatz
Dec 27 '18 at 18:56














@saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
– Mark S.
Dec 27 '18 at 19:46




@saulspatz that's very much not a common definition of codomain in this sort of context. What you have given is the definition of the "image" of the function (often called "range", but range is ambiguous).
– Mark S.
Dec 27 '18 at 19:46




1




1




But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
– stochasticmrfox
Dec 27 '18 at 20:11






But can't there be a y in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under f ?
– stochasticmrfox
Dec 27 '18 at 20:11














@stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
– Mark S.
Dec 31 '18 at 13:08




@stochasticmrfox Yes, "a priori" (before you do any work), you're right that there could be a $y$ in the codomain that doesn't have a pre-image under $f$. saulspatz may be using a different definition of image. But you do get that implication you're worried about for this particular $f$ after you go through the rest of the argument. I have posted an answer trying to clarify.
– Mark S.
Dec 31 '18 at 13:08










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0














We are given $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ given by $f(x)=x+1$, and we wish to see if it's surjective. As the book says, the meaning of "$f$ is surjective" here could be written $yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$ (with an implied $forall y$).



Then the next part of the book is written in a concise way that I agree is a bit confusing. Here is a rewrite with more words that might clarify what they intended. It's way more words than would be required for a proof, but I wanted to make sure I clarify what's going on.





Let's hope this function is surjective, and so let's use the definition to write in what we hope to prove. Substituting in the definition for $f(x)$ (in other words, using the fact that $y=f(x)iff y=x+1$), we see that we want "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1$". Note that $y=x+1iff x=y-1$, so it's enough to prove "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$". But now this is kind of obvious, If $y$ is a real number, then $y-1$ is certainly a real number that equals $y-1$.



Since this is true, the equivalences mean that the original goal "$f$ is surjective" is true as well. $square$





The important facts of the discussion above might be summarized $$yinmathbb R iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$$ where the first forward implication you were worried about is only known at the end, since the argument actually went something like $$yinmathbb R implies exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$$ (and $exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)implies yinmathbb R$ is just a side comment following from the fact that $mathbb R$ is the codomain).



To add on to the above confusion about the order of implications, the author left implicit all of the $exists x$ quantifiers in the chain of reasoning.






share|cite|improve this answer





















    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3054250%2fquestion-on-the-reasoning-behind-determining-surjectivity-of-a-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0














    We are given $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ given by $f(x)=x+1$, and we wish to see if it's surjective. As the book says, the meaning of "$f$ is surjective" here could be written $yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$ (with an implied $forall y$).



    Then the next part of the book is written in a concise way that I agree is a bit confusing. Here is a rewrite with more words that might clarify what they intended. It's way more words than would be required for a proof, but I wanted to make sure I clarify what's going on.





    Let's hope this function is surjective, and so let's use the definition to write in what we hope to prove. Substituting in the definition for $f(x)$ (in other words, using the fact that $y=f(x)iff y=x+1$), we see that we want "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1$". Note that $y=x+1iff x=y-1$, so it's enough to prove "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$". But now this is kind of obvious, If $y$ is a real number, then $y-1$ is certainly a real number that equals $y-1$.



    Since this is true, the equivalences mean that the original goal "$f$ is surjective" is true as well. $square$





    The important facts of the discussion above might be summarized $$yinmathbb R iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$$ where the first forward implication you were worried about is only known at the end, since the argument actually went something like $$yinmathbb R implies exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$$ (and $exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)implies yinmathbb R$ is just a side comment following from the fact that $mathbb R$ is the codomain).



    To add on to the above confusion about the order of implications, the author left implicit all of the $exists x$ quantifiers in the chain of reasoning.






    share|cite|improve this answer


























      0














      We are given $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ given by $f(x)=x+1$, and we wish to see if it's surjective. As the book says, the meaning of "$f$ is surjective" here could be written $yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$ (with an implied $forall y$).



      Then the next part of the book is written in a concise way that I agree is a bit confusing. Here is a rewrite with more words that might clarify what they intended. It's way more words than would be required for a proof, but I wanted to make sure I clarify what's going on.





      Let's hope this function is surjective, and so let's use the definition to write in what we hope to prove. Substituting in the definition for $f(x)$ (in other words, using the fact that $y=f(x)iff y=x+1$), we see that we want "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1$". Note that $y=x+1iff x=y-1$, so it's enough to prove "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$". But now this is kind of obvious, If $y$ is a real number, then $y-1$ is certainly a real number that equals $y-1$.



      Since this is true, the equivalences mean that the original goal "$f$ is surjective" is true as well. $square$





      The important facts of the discussion above might be summarized $$yinmathbb R iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$$ where the first forward implication you were worried about is only known at the end, since the argument actually went something like $$yinmathbb R implies exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$$ (and $exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)implies yinmathbb R$ is just a side comment following from the fact that $mathbb R$ is the codomain).



      To add on to the above confusion about the order of implications, the author left implicit all of the $exists x$ quantifiers in the chain of reasoning.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        0












        0








        0






        We are given $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ given by $f(x)=x+1$, and we wish to see if it's surjective. As the book says, the meaning of "$f$ is surjective" here could be written $yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$ (with an implied $forall y$).



        Then the next part of the book is written in a concise way that I agree is a bit confusing. Here is a rewrite with more words that might clarify what they intended. It's way more words than would be required for a proof, but I wanted to make sure I clarify what's going on.





        Let's hope this function is surjective, and so let's use the definition to write in what we hope to prove. Substituting in the definition for $f(x)$ (in other words, using the fact that $y=f(x)iff y=x+1$), we see that we want "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1$". Note that $y=x+1iff x=y-1$, so it's enough to prove "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$". But now this is kind of obvious, If $y$ is a real number, then $y-1$ is certainly a real number that equals $y-1$.



        Since this is true, the equivalences mean that the original goal "$f$ is surjective" is true as well. $square$





        The important facts of the discussion above might be summarized $$yinmathbb R iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$$ where the first forward implication you were worried about is only known at the end, since the argument actually went something like $$yinmathbb R implies exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$$ (and $exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)implies yinmathbb R$ is just a side comment following from the fact that $mathbb R$ is the codomain).



        To add on to the above confusion about the order of implications, the author left implicit all of the $exists x$ quantifiers in the chain of reasoning.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        We are given $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ given by $f(x)=x+1$, and we wish to see if it's surjective. As the book says, the meaning of "$f$ is surjective" here could be written $yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$ (with an implied $forall y$).



        Then the next part of the book is written in a concise way that I agree is a bit confusing. Here is a rewrite with more words that might clarify what they intended. It's way more words than would be required for a proof, but I wanted to make sure I clarify what's going on.





        Let's hope this function is surjective, and so let's use the definition to write in what we hope to prove. Substituting in the definition for $f(x)$ (in other words, using the fact that $y=f(x)iff y=x+1$), we see that we want "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1$". Note that $y=x+1iff x=y-1$, so it's enough to prove "$yinmathbb Rimpliesexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$". But now this is kind of obvious, If $y$ is a real number, then $y-1$ is certainly a real number that equals $y-1$.



        Since this is true, the equivalences mean that the original goal "$f$ is surjective" is true as well. $square$





        The important facts of the discussion above might be summarized $$yinmathbb R iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1$$ where the first forward implication you were worried about is only known at the end, since the argument actually went something like $$yinmathbb R implies exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }x=y-1iffexists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=x+1iff exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)$$ (and $exists xinmathbb Rtext{ s.t. }y=f(x)implies yinmathbb R$ is just a side comment following from the fact that $mathbb R$ is the codomain).



        To add on to the above confusion about the order of implications, the author left implicit all of the $exists x$ quantifiers in the chain of reasoning.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 31 '18 at 13:04









        Mark S.

        11.7k22669




        11.7k22669






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





            Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


            Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3054250%2fquestion-on-the-reasoning-behind-determining-surjectivity-of-a-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Human spaceflight

            Can not write log (Is /dev/pts mounted?) - openpty in Ubuntu-on-Windows?

            File:DeusFollowingSea.jpg