Does Umbridge's speech really say that “the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts”?
At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,
Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.
Ron Weasley: Was there?
Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?
Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.
Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.
Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?
P. S. English is not native to me, so please feel free to correct the question!
harry-potter
New contributor
add a comment |
At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,
Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.
Ron Weasley: Was there?
Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?
Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.
Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.
Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?
P. S. English is not native to me, so please feel free to correct the question!
harry-potter
New contributor
add a comment |
At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,
Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.
Ron Weasley: Was there?
Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?
Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.
Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.
Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?
P. S. English is not native to me, so please feel free to correct the question!
harry-potter
New contributor
At the start-of-the-term dinner, Dolores Umbridge interrupts Albus Dumbledore and gives a lengthy and quite strange speech. As summarized in the book,
Hermione Granger: There was some important stuff hidden in the waffle.
Ron Weasley: Was there?
Hermione Granger: How about: "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"? How about: "pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Ron Weasley: Well, what does that mean?
Hermione Granger: I'll tell you what it means. It means the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts.
Of course Miss Granger is a genius and I am not, but I do not see any way to infer "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" from what Umbridge actually said.
Could you help explain how this was inferred? Is the speech supposed to mean something like "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts" to a normal reader, or is it just a Sherlock Holmes-like move to show us how clever Hermione is?
P. S. English is not native to me, so please feel free to correct the question!
harry-potter
harry-potter
New contributor
New contributor
edited Dec 30 '18 at 15:56
Stormblessed
560119
560119
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asked Dec 30 '18 at 7:44
se0808
23737
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4 Answers
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Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.
Here are the snippets of her speech:
"The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
Wizarding community must be passed down through
the generations lest we lose them forever. The
treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
by those who have been called to the noble profession
of teaching."
"Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
brought something new to the weighty task of
governing this historic school, and that is as it should
be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
old and new, between permanence and change,
between tradition and innovation..."
"... because some changes will be for the better, while
others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
find practices that ought to be prohibited."
I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.
I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).
I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:
The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.
Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).
In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:
Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
"Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.
Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.
Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
add a comment |
"progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"
Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?
"pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Which practices are those, and who are "we"?
Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
|
show 1 more comment
To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.
The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.
"Pruning wherever we find practises that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.
The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.
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Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.
Here are the snippets of her speech:
"The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
Wizarding community must be passed down through
the generations lest we lose them forever. The
treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
by those who have been called to the noble profession
of teaching."
"Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
brought something new to the weighty task of
governing this historic school, and that is as it should
be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
old and new, between permanence and change,
between tradition and innovation..."
"... because some changes will be for the better, while
others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
find practices that ought to be prohibited."
I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.
I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).
I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:
The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.
Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).
In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:
Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
"Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.
Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.
Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
add a comment |
Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.
Here are the snippets of her speech:
"The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
Wizarding community must be passed down through
the generations lest we lose them forever. The
treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
by those who have been called to the noble profession
of teaching."
"Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
brought something new to the weighty task of
governing this historic school, and that is as it should
be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
old and new, between permanence and change,
between tradition and innovation..."
"... because some changes will be for the better, while
others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
find practices that ought to be prohibited."
I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.
I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).
I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:
The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.
Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).
In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:
Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
"Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.
Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.
Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
add a comment |
Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.
Here are the snippets of her speech:
"The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
Wizarding community must be passed down through
the generations lest we lose them forever. The
treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
by those who have been called to the noble profession
of teaching."
"Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
brought something new to the weighty task of
governing this historic school, and that is as it should
be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
old and new, between permanence and change,
between tradition and innovation..."
"... because some changes will be for the better, while
others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
find practices that ought to be prohibited."
I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.
I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).
I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:
The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.
Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).
In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:
Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
"Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.
Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.
Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.
Umbridge spoke for a long time, but only small snippets of it are recorded in the book. While it is theoretically possible that she said some stuff "off-screen" that gave away that the Ministry would be interfering, for the sake of answering this question let's assume that we have enough information in the parts that we saw.
Here are the snippets of her speech:
"The Ministry of Magic has always considered the
education of young witches and wizards to be of vital
importance. The rare gifts with which you were born
may come to nothing if not nurtured and honed by
careful instruction. The ancient skills unique to the
Wizarding community must be passed down through
the generations lest we lose them forever. The
treasure trove of magical knowledge amassed by our
ancestors must be guarded, replenished, and polished
by those who have been called to the noble profession
of teaching."
"Every headmaster and headmistress of Hogwarts has
brought something new to the weighty task of
governing this historic school, and that is as it should
be, for without progress there will be stagnation and
decay. There again, progress for progress’s sake must
be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions
often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between
old and new, between permanence and change,
between tradition and innovation..."
"... because some changes will be for the better, while
others will come, in the fullness of time, to be
recognized as errors of judgment. Meanwhile, some
old habits will be retained, and rightly so, whereas
others, outmoded and outworn, must be abandoned.
Let us move forward, then, into a new era of
openness, effectiveness, and accountability, intent on
preserving what ought to be preserved, perfecting
what needs to be perfected, and pruning wherever we
find practices that ought to be prohibited."
I would argue that none of the concepts Umbridge discusses actually indicate Ministry interference. The first paragraph points out the unique mission of Hogwarts, the second paragraph points out that every headmaster changes things up a bit, and a certain balance is necessary, and the third paragraph says that we have to constantly look back and see if we are making things better or worse.
I don't think any of that is particularly controversial. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other headmasters made similar speeches upon starting at Hogwarts (though I'd expect some of them to at least have the sense to not give the speech to a room full of sleepy, inattentive students).
I think that the entire issue here is with the very first sentence:
The Ministry of Magic has always considered the education of young witches and wizards to be of vital importance.
Everyone agrees that education is important, and should be done properly. So why mention the Ministry here? I would argue that it is this insertion that is the indicator of Ministry interference. By telling us that the Ministry values education, she is saying that whatever follows (e.g. some things need to be reevaluated) will be Ministry-oriented. Had she left out the first sentence there would have been no indication of Ministry interference (though there might have been indication of her own interference).
In fact, we can make an observation based on the reactions of others besides Hermione. During the speech we find the following:
Professor McGonagall’s dark eyebrows had
contracted so that she looked positively hawklike, and
Harry distinctly saw her exchange a significant glance
with Professor Sprout as Umbridge gave another little
"Hem, hem" and went on with her speech.
Yet, interestingly, this does not occur after the second or third paragraph, which is where Umbridge actually lays out what the "interference" would consist of. Instead, it occurs after the first paragraph when all Umbridge said is that the Ministry values education. It would seem, then, that McGonagall and Sprout already realized something was up, just from the first paragraph. If so, it was probably from the mention of the Ministry, because as noted above that is entirely superfluous unless the Ministry will be interfering.
Therefore, I would assume that Hermione also figured out right from the start that Umbridge would be initiating Ministry interference. The specific examples mentioned by Hermione (and the other answers here) are just that — examples of how the Ministry will be interfering once we already know that they will be interfering.
edited Dec 30 '18 at 18:37
answered Dec 30 '18 at 18:24
Alex
13.6k23875
13.6k23875
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
add a comment |
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
6
6
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
I quite like the idea that only the first line actually matters. It is strange that this answer is the last by the number of votes casted. If no changes happen I am going to choose this answer as marked (not now as it looks rude to choose the answer that quick).
– se0808
Dec 30 '18 at 20:06
1
1
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
I agree with a lot of what you say but not the conclusion, even the first paragraph had a lot of signalling if you look: "careful instruction", "ancient skills" "passed down" "lose them forever". "amassed by our ancestors" "guarded". This whole paragraph reeks of a backward looking traditionalist fundamentalist worldview saying that new is bad, that traditions and by extension authority figures derived from those traditions is good.
– Tim B
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
@TimB As I argued in the post, those things in and of themselves are probably not controversial in and of themselves to most wizards. It’s considered problematic because it’s the Ministry trying to do them.
– Alex
2 days ago
add a comment |
"progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"
Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?
"pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Which practices are those, and who are "we"?
Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
|
show 1 more comment
"progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"
Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?
"pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Which practices are those, and who are "we"?
Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
|
show 1 more comment
"progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"
Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?
"pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Which practices are those, and who are "we"?
Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".
"progress for progress's sake must be discouraged"
Who decides whether an innovation is a good thing or just "progress for progress's sake"?
"pruning wherever we find practices that ought to be prohibited"?
Which practices are those, and who are "we"?
Both of these implicitly assume a judgement on what should be discouraged or prohibited. Since Umbridge was appointed by the Ministry it follows that it is the Ministry judgement that will be applied. Presumably in the past the Headmaster of Hogwarts was free to run the school as he saw fit, answerable only to the Board of Governors. Umbridge's speech was a coded announcement that in the future the Ministry would be setting policy directly, which is what Hermione described as "interfering".
edited Dec 31 '18 at 10:29
answered Dec 30 '18 at 15:26
Paul Johnson
3,34811022
3,34811022
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
|
show 1 more comment
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
12
12
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
The answer by @Sarriesfan is interesting, but this is the correct one. Anyone familiar with the way politicians speak and the subtleties of language in general should understand what Hermione means. That probably doesn't include all of the young audience of the books no matter if they are reading it in their native language.
– Nobody
Dec 30 '18 at 18:55
7
7
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
More important in your second quote - "wherever we find practices". Who, if not the ministry, is "we"?
– WhatRoughBeast
Dec 30 '18 at 23:43
5
5
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
Symbolically it's also already enough that she (representing the government) interrupts him (representing the school), indicating that she sees herself above him and figuratively directly meddling in his affairs.
– Darkwing
Dec 31 '18 at 13:28
2
2
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
Also, it's good to point out that the mere notion that "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" is itself a huge red flag. Progress for progress's sake is, in fact, a very, very good thing!
– Sean
Dec 31 '18 at 19:05
5
5
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
+1. I think there's an implicit pun here on two senses of the word "means". The sentence "progress for progress's sake must be discouraged" certainly doesn't mean the same as the sentence "the Ministry's interfering at Hogwarts"; but the fact that Umbridge is saying it means that the Ministry is interfering at Hogwarts. I think Ron's question is using the first sense, but Hermione's answer is certainly using the second. (I think her preface, "I'll tell you what it means", is intended to signal that transition.)
– ruakh
Dec 31 '18 at 22:55
|
show 1 more comment
To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.
The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.
"Pruning wherever we find practises that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.
The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.
The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.
"Pruning wherever we find practises that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.
The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.
The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.
"Pruning wherever we find practises that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.
The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.
To understand this you have to appreciate that the Harry Potter series of books were not written in a vacuum, and that JK Rowling is a politically active person. The idea of the British Government interfering in education has been an issue here for a couple of decades and Rowling's works mirror the real world situation in the UK in her Wizarding world.
The words of Dolores Umbridge reflect the typical doublespeak that politicians use in the real word. "Progress for progress's sake should be discouraged" means that you should not do something progressive just because you can, in our world it would be something like the right of gay marriage.
"Pruning wherever we find practises that ought to be prohibited" means stopping the schools from teaching subjects that the Ministry did not approve of, such as Muggle studies. In the real world, in Britain, subjects such as music teaching and media studies had reduced funding.
The Ministry is not allowing the staff at Hogwarts to make its own policies about what it should teach and how it should teach them, that's how the Ministry of Magic is interfering.
edited Dec 30 '18 at 18:25
Ginge
306112
306112
answered Dec 30 '18 at 9:05
Sarriesfan
2,0291615
2,0291615
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
8
8
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
Context, context, context. This is what my literature professor always hammered on us. People too often detach a work from its cultural roots, or worse, swap it for their own. While a few works suffer little to nothing from this, most do. +1
– Mindwin
Dec 31 '18 at 10:55
7
7
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
While this is an interesting look at British school politics, I don't think that this is related to the question. As pointed out in Paul Johnson's and Alex's answers, it's directly understandable without any further context. While your answer could be good supplemental material, it shouldn't state that her meaning was obscure.
– William Grobman
Dec 31 '18 at 13:39
5
5
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
I agree. This answer might explain why Rowling wrote Umbridge as interfering with schooling (or it might not - Rowling's not limited to real-world or British influences, and might have had something else more firmly in mind while writing this). But Hermione's conclusion is very logical, and understanding it doesn't require the reader to know anything about British politics.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:17
3
3
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
As an analogy, understanding who Aunt Marge represents or why she keeps bulldogs requires a little understanding of British politics. Understanding why she says insulting things about Harry and his parents doesn't.
– Adamant
Dec 31 '18 at 18:19
1
1
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
Oh, sorry. I should have explained that in the comment. She's probably based at least partly on Margaret ("Marge") Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister (although Rowling also claims her own grandmother as inspiration). She keeps bulldogs because bulldogs are very "English", and she expresses some conservative social opinions. As a somewhat liberal individual and Labour supporter, Rowling probably doesn't like Thatcher very much.
– Adamant
13 hours ago
|
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Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.
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Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.
New contributor
add a comment |
Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.
New contributor
Dumbledore was the headmaster of Hogwarts, whereas Umbridge was just an underling working under the direction of the headmaster. For Umbridge to publicly pass absolute judgements against the policies or philosophies of Hogwarts was not a constructive action but therefore a hostile one. Dolores was able to get away with inappropriate and socially out-of-place comments like that because she had the protection of the Ministry to fall back on, hence the reason for Hermione's comment. It doesn't take a genius to see that, all you have to do is pay attention to what is going on around you, as Hermione often did.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Dec 30 '18 at 23:41
ar18
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611
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