Conditional probability problem
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An Internet search engine looks for a keyword in 9 databases, searching them in random order. Only 5 of these databases contain the given keyword. What is the probability that it will be found in at least 2 of the first 4 searched databases?
What I tried is: Let X: the event that the keyword is to be found in at least 2 databases, and Y: the event that we search the first 4 databases,
then we need to find a conditional probability
$P(Xgeq 2 | Y)=P(X= 2,3,text{ or }4 | Y)=frac{P({Xgeq 2} cap Y)}{P(Y)}$
but then I don't know how to continue?
Any help...
probability
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
An Internet search engine looks for a keyword in 9 databases, searching them in random order. Only 5 of these databases contain the given keyword. What is the probability that it will be found in at least 2 of the first 4 searched databases?
What I tried is: Let X: the event that the keyword is to be found in at least 2 databases, and Y: the event that we search the first 4 databases,
then we need to find a conditional probability
$P(Xgeq 2 | Y)=P(X= 2,3,text{ or }4 | Y)=frac{P({Xgeq 2} cap Y)}{P(Y)}$
but then I don't know how to continue?
Any help...
probability
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
An Internet search engine looks for a keyword in 9 databases, searching them in random order. Only 5 of these databases contain the given keyword. What is the probability that it will be found in at least 2 of the first 4 searched databases?
What I tried is: Let X: the event that the keyword is to be found in at least 2 databases, and Y: the event that we search the first 4 databases,
then we need to find a conditional probability
$P(Xgeq 2 | Y)=P(X= 2,3,text{ or }4 | Y)=frac{P({Xgeq 2} cap Y)}{P(Y)}$
but then I don't know how to continue?
Any help...
probability
$endgroup$
An Internet search engine looks for a keyword in 9 databases, searching them in random order. Only 5 of these databases contain the given keyword. What is the probability that it will be found in at least 2 of the first 4 searched databases?
What I tried is: Let X: the event that the keyword is to be found in at least 2 databases, and Y: the event that we search the first 4 databases,
then we need to find a conditional probability
$P(Xgeq 2 | Y)=P(X= 2,3,text{ or }4 | Y)=frac{P({Xgeq 2} cap Y)}{P(Y)}$
but then I don't know how to continue?
Any help...
probability
probability
edited Sep 11 '11 at 0:03
Michael Hardy
1
1
asked Sep 10 '11 at 16:38
KellyKelly
363
363
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
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You are going to have to work out the probabilities of getting the keyword exactly $n$ times, and either add up the probabilities for $n=2$, $3$ or $4$, or subtract from $1$ the probabilities for $n=1$ or $0$.
If $N$ is the number of dictionaries where the keyword is found then $$Pr(N=n) = frac{{5 choose n}{4 choose 4-n}}{9 choose 4}$$ since you have to choose $n$ dictionaries from $5$ with the keyword and $4-n$ from $4$ without, choosing $4$ from $9$ overall.
So for $n=0,1,2,3,4$ this gives probabilities $frac{1}{126},frac{20}{126},frac{60}{126},frac{40}{126},frac{5}{126}$.
Add up the last three (and change to lowest terms) and you have your solution.
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@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
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Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
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So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
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In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
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Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
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show 1 more comment
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Added: Henry's and my answers, while the approaches are different, actually give the same result! To see why, let's do the general case with $N$ databases, $M$ of which contain the keyword, and us choosing $K$ databases. Let $X$ be the number of the $K$ databases chosen that contain the keyword. For $P(X = x)$, Henry's and my logic give the following answers.
$$text{ Henry: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}}; text{ me: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
But
$$frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}} = frac{M!}{x! (M-x)!} frac{(N-M)!}{(K-x)! (N-M-K+x)!} frac{K! (N-K)!}{N!}$$
$$= frac{K!}{x! (K-x)!} frac{(N-K)!}{(M-x)! (N-K-M+x)!} frac{M! (N-M)!}{N!} = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
Thus the two answers give the same result.
(Original answer.)
I would approach it differently. Let $X$ be the number of the first four databases in which the keyword is found. You want $P(X geq 2)$.
$$P(X = 2) = frac{binom{4}{2} binom{5}{3}}{binom{9}{5}}$$ because there are $binom{4}{2}$ ways that 2 of the first 4 databases can contain the keyword, $binom{5}{3}$ ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword, and $binom{9}{5}$ ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword.
I'll let you calculate $P(X = 3)$ and $P(X = 4)$.
(FYI, $X$ has what's called a hypergeometric distribution.)
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So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
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– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
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@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
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I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
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– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
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@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
add a comment |
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Let $t=9$ be total number of databases, of which $n=4$ have no and $k=5$ have the keyword.
Let $c=4$ databases are chosen and $s$ databases have the keyword.
The question is asking to find $sge 2$, i.e. $s=color{red}2,color{green}3,color{blue}4$.
There are ${tchoose c}={9choose 4}$ ways to choose $c$ databases from total $t$ databases.
Case 1: There are ${kchoose 2}={5choose color{red}2}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 2}={4choose 2}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 2}{4choose 2}$.
Case 2: There are ${kchoose 3}={5choose color{green}3}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 1}={4choose 1}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 3}{4choose 1}$.
Case 3: There are ${kchoose 4}={5choose color{blue}4}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 0}={4choose 0}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 4}{4choose 0}$.
Hence, the required probability is:
$$P(sge 2)=P(s=2)+P(s=3)+P(s=4)=\
frac{{5choose 2}{4choose 2}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 3}{4choose 1}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 4}{4choose 0}}{9choose 4}=\
frac{60+40+5}{126}=frac{35}{42}approx 0.83.$$
Note that you can also use the complement, i.e.:
$$P(sge 2)=1-P(s=0)-P(s=1).$$
Thus, in general, the formula is:
$$P(sge r)=sum_{i=r}^c P(s=i)=sum_{i=r}^c frac{{kchoose i}{nchoose c-i}}{{tchoose c}}.$$
Keys: $t$-total, $n$-no keyword, $k$-keyword, $c$-chosen, $s$-success, $r$-minimum required success.
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Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
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– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
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@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
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– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
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How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
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– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
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@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
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– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
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Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
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– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
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active
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You are going to have to work out the probabilities of getting the keyword exactly $n$ times, and either add up the probabilities for $n=2$, $3$ or $4$, or subtract from $1$ the probabilities for $n=1$ or $0$.
If $N$ is the number of dictionaries where the keyword is found then $$Pr(N=n) = frac{{5 choose n}{4 choose 4-n}}{9 choose 4}$$ since you have to choose $n$ dictionaries from $5$ with the keyword and $4-n$ from $4$ without, choosing $4$ from $9$ overall.
So for $n=0,1,2,3,4$ this gives probabilities $frac{1}{126},frac{20}{126},frac{60}{126},frac{40}{126},frac{5}{126}$.
Add up the last three (and change to lowest terms) and you have your solution.
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@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
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Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
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So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
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In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
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Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
|
show 1 more comment
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You are going to have to work out the probabilities of getting the keyword exactly $n$ times, and either add up the probabilities for $n=2$, $3$ or $4$, or subtract from $1$ the probabilities for $n=1$ or $0$.
If $N$ is the number of dictionaries where the keyword is found then $$Pr(N=n) = frac{{5 choose n}{4 choose 4-n}}{9 choose 4}$$ since you have to choose $n$ dictionaries from $5$ with the keyword and $4-n$ from $4$ without, choosing $4$ from $9$ overall.
So for $n=0,1,2,3,4$ this gives probabilities $frac{1}{126},frac{20}{126},frac{60}{126},frac{40}{126},frac{5}{126}$.
Add up the last three (and change to lowest terms) and you have your solution.
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@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
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Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
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So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
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In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
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Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
|
show 1 more comment
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You are going to have to work out the probabilities of getting the keyword exactly $n$ times, and either add up the probabilities for $n=2$, $3$ or $4$, or subtract from $1$ the probabilities for $n=1$ or $0$.
If $N$ is the number of dictionaries where the keyword is found then $$Pr(N=n) = frac{{5 choose n}{4 choose 4-n}}{9 choose 4}$$ since you have to choose $n$ dictionaries from $5$ with the keyword and $4-n$ from $4$ without, choosing $4$ from $9$ overall.
So for $n=0,1,2,3,4$ this gives probabilities $frac{1}{126},frac{20}{126},frac{60}{126},frac{40}{126},frac{5}{126}$.
Add up the last three (and change to lowest terms) and you have your solution.
$endgroup$
You are going to have to work out the probabilities of getting the keyword exactly $n$ times, and either add up the probabilities for $n=2$, $3$ or $4$, or subtract from $1$ the probabilities for $n=1$ or $0$.
If $N$ is the number of dictionaries where the keyword is found then $$Pr(N=n) = frac{{5 choose n}{4 choose 4-n}}{9 choose 4}$$ since you have to choose $n$ dictionaries from $5$ with the keyword and $4-n$ from $4$ without, choosing $4$ from $9$ overall.
So for $n=0,1,2,3,4$ this gives probabilities $frac{1}{126},frac{20}{126},frac{60}{126},frac{40}{126},frac{5}{126}$.
Add up the last three (and change to lowest terms) and you have your solution.
answered Sep 10 '11 at 17:48
HenryHenry
99k478164
99k478164
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@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
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Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
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So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
$begingroup$
In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
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– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
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Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
|
show 1 more comment
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@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
$begingroup$
Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
$begingroup$
So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
$begingroup$
In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
$begingroup$
Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
$begingroup$
@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
$begingroup$
@Mike: I don't know: the value is the same but the words are not. You have ${5 choose 3}$ where I have ${5 choose 2}$, and you say "ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword" while I say "you have to choose 2 dictionaries from 5 with the keyword". Similarly you have ${9 choose 5}$ where I have ${9 choose 4}$, and you say "ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword" while I say "choosing 4 from 9 overall".
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 21:23
$begingroup$
Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
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– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
$begingroup$
Suppose there were only 2 databases (rather than 5) that contain the keyword. If I'm following your logic correctly, your answer to that modified problem would be $P(X = 2) = binom{2}{2} binom{7}{2}/binom{9}{4}$ (2 from 2 with keyword, 2 from 7 without keyword, and 4 from 9 overall). The answer, though, is $binom{4}{2}/binom{9}{2}$ (the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 4 divided by the number of ways to distribute two keywords among a set of 9). So I'm not sure that your logic works in general. (Or am I missing something?)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:48
$begingroup$
So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
$begingroup$
So I guess it's not the same as my solution after all. (Deleting earlier comment to that effect.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 21:53
$begingroup$
In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
$begingroup$
In general, if there are $d$ dictionaries and $k$ of them have keywords, and you choose $m$ of them then $Pr(N=n) = dfrac{{k choose n}{d-k choose m-n}}{d choose n}$.
$endgroup$
– Henry
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
$begingroup$
Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
$begingroup$
Huh. Even in the example I sort of picked at random, our logic still gives the same numerical answer! Perhaps our answers are equivalent after all, even when they don't look like it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to pursue this any further. +1 from me.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 22:09
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Added: Henry's and my answers, while the approaches are different, actually give the same result! To see why, let's do the general case with $N$ databases, $M$ of which contain the keyword, and us choosing $K$ databases. Let $X$ be the number of the $K$ databases chosen that contain the keyword. For $P(X = x)$, Henry's and my logic give the following answers.
$$text{ Henry: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}}; text{ me: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
But
$$frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}} = frac{M!}{x! (M-x)!} frac{(N-M)!}{(K-x)! (N-M-K+x)!} frac{K! (N-K)!}{N!}$$
$$= frac{K!}{x! (K-x)!} frac{(N-K)!}{(M-x)! (N-K-M+x)!} frac{M! (N-M)!}{N!} = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
Thus the two answers give the same result.
(Original answer.)
I would approach it differently. Let $X$ be the number of the first four databases in which the keyword is found. You want $P(X geq 2)$.
$$P(X = 2) = frac{binom{4}{2} binom{5}{3}}{binom{9}{5}}$$ because there are $binom{4}{2}$ ways that 2 of the first 4 databases can contain the keyword, $binom{5}{3}$ ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword, and $binom{9}{5}$ ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword.
I'll let you calculate $P(X = 3)$ and $P(X = 4)$.
(FYI, $X$ has what's called a hypergeometric distribution.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Added: Henry's and my answers, while the approaches are different, actually give the same result! To see why, let's do the general case with $N$ databases, $M$ of which contain the keyword, and us choosing $K$ databases. Let $X$ be the number of the $K$ databases chosen that contain the keyword. For $P(X = x)$, Henry's and my logic give the following answers.
$$text{ Henry: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}}; text{ me: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
But
$$frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}} = frac{M!}{x! (M-x)!} frac{(N-M)!}{(K-x)! (N-M-K+x)!} frac{K! (N-K)!}{N!}$$
$$= frac{K!}{x! (K-x)!} frac{(N-K)!}{(M-x)! (N-K-M+x)!} frac{M! (N-M)!}{N!} = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
Thus the two answers give the same result.
(Original answer.)
I would approach it differently. Let $X$ be the number of the first four databases in which the keyword is found. You want $P(X geq 2)$.
$$P(X = 2) = frac{binom{4}{2} binom{5}{3}}{binom{9}{5}}$$ because there are $binom{4}{2}$ ways that 2 of the first 4 databases can contain the keyword, $binom{5}{3}$ ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword, and $binom{9}{5}$ ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword.
I'll let you calculate $P(X = 3)$ and $P(X = 4)$.
(FYI, $X$ has what's called a hypergeometric distribution.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Added: Henry's and my answers, while the approaches are different, actually give the same result! To see why, let's do the general case with $N$ databases, $M$ of which contain the keyword, and us choosing $K$ databases. Let $X$ be the number of the $K$ databases chosen that contain the keyword. For $P(X = x)$, Henry's and my logic give the following answers.
$$text{ Henry: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}}; text{ me: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
But
$$frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}} = frac{M!}{x! (M-x)!} frac{(N-M)!}{(K-x)! (N-M-K+x)!} frac{K! (N-K)!}{N!}$$
$$= frac{K!}{x! (K-x)!} frac{(N-K)!}{(M-x)! (N-K-M+x)!} frac{M! (N-M)!}{N!} = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
Thus the two answers give the same result.
(Original answer.)
I would approach it differently. Let $X$ be the number of the first four databases in which the keyword is found. You want $P(X geq 2)$.
$$P(X = 2) = frac{binom{4}{2} binom{5}{3}}{binom{9}{5}}$$ because there are $binom{4}{2}$ ways that 2 of the first 4 databases can contain the keyword, $binom{5}{3}$ ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword, and $binom{9}{5}$ ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword.
I'll let you calculate $P(X = 3)$ and $P(X = 4)$.
(FYI, $X$ has what's called a hypergeometric distribution.)
$endgroup$
Added: Henry's and my answers, while the approaches are different, actually give the same result! To see why, let's do the general case with $N$ databases, $M$ of which contain the keyword, and us choosing $K$ databases. Let $X$ be the number of the $K$ databases chosen that contain the keyword. For $P(X = x)$, Henry's and my logic give the following answers.
$$text{ Henry: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}}; text{ me: } P(X = x) = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
But
$$frac{binom{M}{x}binom{N-M}{K-x}}{binom{N}{K}} = frac{M!}{x! (M-x)!} frac{(N-M)!}{(K-x)! (N-M-K+x)!} frac{K! (N-K)!}{N!}$$
$$= frac{K!}{x! (K-x)!} frac{(N-K)!}{(M-x)! (N-K-M+x)!} frac{M! (N-M)!}{N!} = frac{binom{K}{x} binom{N-K}{M-x}}{binom{N}{M}}.$$
Thus the two answers give the same result.
(Original answer.)
I would approach it differently. Let $X$ be the number of the first four databases in which the keyword is found. You want $P(X geq 2)$.
$$P(X = 2) = frac{binom{4}{2} binom{5}{3}}{binom{9}{5}}$$ because there are $binom{4}{2}$ ways that 2 of the first 4 databases can contain the keyword, $binom{5}{3}$ ways that 3 of the last 5 databases can contain the keyword, and $binom{9}{5}$ ways that 5 of the 9 total databases to contain the keyword.
I'll let you calculate $P(X = 3)$ and $P(X = 4)$.
(FYI, $X$ has what's called a hypergeometric distribution.)
edited Sep 10 '11 at 23:37
answered Sep 10 '11 at 16:53
Mike SpiveyMike Spivey
42.4k8141232
42.4k8141232
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
So, in general: $P(X=k)=frac{binom{4}{k} binom{5}{5-k}}{binom{9}{5}} $
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 16:56
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
@Jess: Yep. That's the form of the probability mass function for a hypergeometric distribution.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
I feel that there is something wrong above! Are we choosing 4 items and not 5?!
$endgroup$
– Kelly
Sep 10 '11 at 17:06
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
$begingroup$
@Jess: I was looking at the problem from the point of view of placing 5 keywords into 9 databases. So we are choosing 5 items (databases) in which to place the keywords.
$endgroup$
– Mike Spivey
Sep 10 '11 at 20:31
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $t=9$ be total number of databases, of which $n=4$ have no and $k=5$ have the keyword.
Let $c=4$ databases are chosen and $s$ databases have the keyword.
The question is asking to find $sge 2$, i.e. $s=color{red}2,color{green}3,color{blue}4$.
There are ${tchoose c}={9choose 4}$ ways to choose $c$ databases from total $t$ databases.
Case 1: There are ${kchoose 2}={5choose color{red}2}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 2}={4choose 2}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 2}{4choose 2}$.
Case 2: There are ${kchoose 3}={5choose color{green}3}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 1}={4choose 1}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 3}{4choose 1}$.
Case 3: There are ${kchoose 4}={5choose color{blue}4}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 0}={4choose 0}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 4}{4choose 0}$.
Hence, the required probability is:
$$P(sge 2)=P(s=2)+P(s=3)+P(s=4)=\
frac{{5choose 2}{4choose 2}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 3}{4choose 1}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 4}{4choose 0}}{9choose 4}=\
frac{60+40+5}{126}=frac{35}{42}approx 0.83.$$
Note that you can also use the complement, i.e.:
$$P(sge 2)=1-P(s=0)-P(s=1).$$
Thus, in general, the formula is:
$$P(sge r)=sum_{i=r}^c P(s=i)=sum_{i=r}^c frac{{kchoose i}{nchoose c-i}}{{tchoose c}}.$$
Keys: $t$-total, $n$-no keyword, $k$-keyword, $c$-chosen, $s$-success, $r$-minimum required success.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $t=9$ be total number of databases, of which $n=4$ have no and $k=5$ have the keyword.
Let $c=4$ databases are chosen and $s$ databases have the keyword.
The question is asking to find $sge 2$, i.e. $s=color{red}2,color{green}3,color{blue}4$.
There are ${tchoose c}={9choose 4}$ ways to choose $c$ databases from total $t$ databases.
Case 1: There are ${kchoose 2}={5choose color{red}2}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 2}={4choose 2}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 2}{4choose 2}$.
Case 2: There are ${kchoose 3}={5choose color{green}3}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 1}={4choose 1}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 3}{4choose 1}$.
Case 3: There are ${kchoose 4}={5choose color{blue}4}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 0}={4choose 0}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 4}{4choose 0}$.
Hence, the required probability is:
$$P(sge 2)=P(s=2)+P(s=3)+P(s=4)=\
frac{{5choose 2}{4choose 2}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 3}{4choose 1}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 4}{4choose 0}}{9choose 4}=\
frac{60+40+5}{126}=frac{35}{42}approx 0.83.$$
Note that you can also use the complement, i.e.:
$$P(sge 2)=1-P(s=0)-P(s=1).$$
Thus, in general, the formula is:
$$P(sge r)=sum_{i=r}^c P(s=i)=sum_{i=r}^c frac{{kchoose i}{nchoose c-i}}{{tchoose c}}.$$
Keys: $t$-total, $n$-no keyword, $k$-keyword, $c$-chosen, $s$-success, $r$-minimum required success.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $t=9$ be total number of databases, of which $n=4$ have no and $k=5$ have the keyword.
Let $c=4$ databases are chosen and $s$ databases have the keyword.
The question is asking to find $sge 2$, i.e. $s=color{red}2,color{green}3,color{blue}4$.
There are ${tchoose c}={9choose 4}$ ways to choose $c$ databases from total $t$ databases.
Case 1: There are ${kchoose 2}={5choose color{red}2}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 2}={4choose 2}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 2}{4choose 2}$.
Case 2: There are ${kchoose 3}={5choose color{green}3}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 1}={4choose 1}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 3}{4choose 1}$.
Case 3: There are ${kchoose 4}={5choose color{blue}4}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 0}={4choose 0}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 4}{4choose 0}$.
Hence, the required probability is:
$$P(sge 2)=P(s=2)+P(s=3)+P(s=4)=\
frac{{5choose 2}{4choose 2}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 3}{4choose 1}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 4}{4choose 0}}{9choose 4}=\
frac{60+40+5}{126}=frac{35}{42}approx 0.83.$$
Note that you can also use the complement, i.e.:
$$P(sge 2)=1-P(s=0)-P(s=1).$$
Thus, in general, the formula is:
$$P(sge r)=sum_{i=r}^c P(s=i)=sum_{i=r}^c frac{{kchoose i}{nchoose c-i}}{{tchoose c}}.$$
Keys: $t$-total, $n$-no keyword, $k$-keyword, $c$-chosen, $s$-success, $r$-minimum required success.
$endgroup$
Let $t=9$ be total number of databases, of which $n=4$ have no and $k=5$ have the keyword.
Let $c=4$ databases are chosen and $s$ databases have the keyword.
The question is asking to find $sge 2$, i.e. $s=color{red}2,color{green}3,color{blue}4$.
There are ${tchoose c}={9choose 4}$ ways to choose $c$ databases from total $t$ databases.
Case 1: There are ${kchoose 2}={5choose color{red}2}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 2}={4choose 2}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 2}{4choose 2}$.
Case 2: There are ${kchoose 3}={5choose color{green}3}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 1}={4choose 1}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 3}{4choose 1}$.
Case 3: There are ${kchoose 4}={5choose color{blue}4}$ ways to choose from $k$ and ${nchoose 0}={4choose 0}$ ways from $n$, hence: ${5choose 4}{4choose 0}$.
Hence, the required probability is:
$$P(sge 2)=P(s=2)+P(s=3)+P(s=4)=\
frac{{5choose 2}{4choose 2}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 3}{4choose 1}}{9choose 4}+frac{{5choose 4}{4choose 0}}{9choose 4}=\
frac{60+40+5}{126}=frac{35}{42}approx 0.83.$$
Note that you can also use the complement, i.e.:
$$P(sge 2)=1-P(s=0)-P(s=1).$$
Thus, in general, the formula is:
$$P(sge r)=sum_{i=r}^c P(s=i)=sum_{i=r}^c frac{{kchoose i}{nchoose c-i}}{{tchoose c}}.$$
Keys: $t$-total, $n$-no keyword, $k$-keyword, $c$-chosen, $s$-success, $r$-minimum required success.
answered Jan 1 at 11:26
farruhotafarruhota
19.7k2738
19.7k2738
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
Useful, after the answers from 7 years ago?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
@Did, I tried to summarize and generalize the other answers.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:21
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
How did you fall on this question and why did you decide to "reawaken" it?
$endgroup$
– Did
Jan 1 at 12:24
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
@Did, the third answer brought it up, I read the discussions in comments and decided to organize the answers. Oh well, I see the OP has been off since then. So, it looks the problem will hang out unaccepted.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Jan 1 at 12:29
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
$begingroup$
Thanks. I've read the question and all answers again; seem that I misunderstood the question (4 searched databases here mean each search hit distinguished database); the answer has been deleted.
$endgroup$
– o0omycomputero0o
Jan 1 at 15:03
add a comment |
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