What is the value of $a + b$ if $asqrt{b} = BC$ in right triangle $Delta ABC$?












0












$begingroup$



In $Delta ABC$, $angle ABC = 90^circ$ , $D$ is the midpoint of line
$BC$. Point $P$ is on $AD$ line. $PM$ & $PN$ are respectively
perpendicular on $AB$ & $AC$. $PM$ = $2PN$, $AB = 5$, $BC$ = $asqrt{b}$,
where $a, b$ are positive integers. $a+b$ = ?




Source: Bangladesh Math Olympiad 2018 junior category.



I could not find any way to relate $PM$ = $2PN$ to this math.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Jan 17 at 14:18


















0












$begingroup$



In $Delta ABC$, $angle ABC = 90^circ$ , $D$ is the midpoint of line
$BC$. Point $P$ is on $AD$ line. $PM$ & $PN$ are respectively
perpendicular on $AB$ & $AC$. $PM$ = $2PN$, $AB = 5$, $BC$ = $asqrt{b}$,
where $a, b$ are positive integers. $a+b$ = ?




Source: Bangladesh Math Olympiad 2018 junior category.



I could not find any way to relate $PM$ = $2PN$ to this math.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Jan 17 at 14:18
















0












0








0





$begingroup$



In $Delta ABC$, $angle ABC = 90^circ$ , $D$ is the midpoint of line
$BC$. Point $P$ is on $AD$ line. $PM$ & $PN$ are respectively
perpendicular on $AB$ & $AC$. $PM$ = $2PN$, $AB = 5$, $BC$ = $asqrt{b}$,
where $a, b$ are positive integers. $a+b$ = ?




Source: Bangladesh Math Olympiad 2018 junior category.



I could not find any way to relate $PM$ = $2PN$ to this math.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





In $Delta ABC$, $angle ABC = 90^circ$ , $D$ is the midpoint of line
$BC$. Point $P$ is on $AD$ line. $PM$ & $PN$ are respectively
perpendicular on $AB$ & $AC$. $PM$ = $2PN$, $AB = 5$, $BC$ = $asqrt{b}$,
where $a, b$ are positive integers. $a+b$ = ?




Source: Bangladesh Math Olympiad 2018 junior category.



I could not find any way to relate $PM$ = $2PN$ to this math.







geometry contest-math triangles






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edited Jan 17 at 15:06









the_fox

2,90231538




2,90231538










asked Jan 17 at 13:34









ShromiShromi

3289




3289












  • $begingroup$
    This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Jan 17 at 14:18




















  • $begingroup$
    This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Jan 17 at 14:18


















$begingroup$
This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
$endgroup$
– Oscar Lanzi
Jan 17 at 14:18






$begingroup$
This may not be unique. What if $|BC|^2$ were $75$, do we take $a=1$ or $a=5$? Or is the correct value amenable to $a=1$ only?
$endgroup$
– Oscar Lanzi
Jan 17 at 14:18












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

Diagram



$triangle ABC sim triangle AMM' sim triangle PNM'$



$frac{BC}{AB}=frac{NM'}{PN}$



$PM'=PM=2PN$



$NM'=sqrt{(2PN)^2-PN^2}=PNsqrt3$



$frac{NM'}{PN}=sqrt3$



$frac{BC}{AB}=sqrt3$



$BC=ABsqrt3=5sqrt3$



$a=5,b=3,color{blue}{a+b=8}$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Jan 17 at 15:02






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Mathias
    Jan 17 at 15:06



















1












$begingroup$

Let $$angle{BAC}=alpha$$ then
$$tan(alpha)=frac{PM}{5-PN}=-frac{PN}{frac{a}{2}-2PN}$$ so we get $$frac{a}{2}+5=3PN$$ (1) and $$AD^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ so
$$left(frac{2PN}{sin(alpha)}+frac{PN}{cos(alpha)}right)^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ and for $PN$ we have $$PN=frac{1}{3}left(frac{a}{2}+5right)$$ and $$cos^2(alpha)=frac{1}{tan^2(alpha)+1)}$$ and $$sin^2(alpha)=frac{tan^2(alpha)}{1+tan^2(alpha)}$$
Can you finish?






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    We can think that $B=(0,0)$. Then $A=(0,5)$ and $C=(asqrt{b},0)$.



    Then we have that $D=(frac{asqrt{b}}{2},0)$.



    Since $P$ is in $AD$, $P=(0,5)+lambda_1 (asqrt{b},-10)$.



    Now, as we can see in the picture, we do not know where $N$ and $M$ are. But by what you said, we have two options for each one:



    $N_1= (0,5)+lambda_2(asqrt{b},-5)$



    $N_2= (0,0)+lambda_3(asqrt{b},0) = (lambda_3 cdot asqrt{b},0)$



    $M_1= (0,0)+lambda_4(0,5)=(0,lambda_4 cdot 5)$



    $M_2= (0,5)+lambda_5(asqrt{b},-5)$



    Now, we have to play computating $PM$ and $PN$ and using your relation.



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I will edit it now. Thanks!
      $endgroup$
      – idriskameni
      Jan 17 at 13:55





















    0












    $begingroup$

    Draw the triangle as instructed. $M$ and $N$ are taken to be the feet if the respective perpendiculars to the triangle's sides, $M$ on $AB$ and $N$ on $AC$.



    Draw $DN'$ parallel to $PN$ with $N'$ also on $AC$. Then $triangle AMP ~ triangle ABD$ and $triangle APB ~ triangle ADN'$, forcing $|PM|/|PN|=|BD|/|DN'|=|CD|/|DN'|=2$. Then right $triangle DN'C$ has a hypoteneyse/leg ratio of $2:1$ hence $angle C$ measures $30°$.



    It follows that right $triangle ABC$ with a $30°$ angle at $C$ also has a $2:1$ ratio of the hypotenuse to the shorter leg, therefore its hypotenuse is $10$ and $|BC|=5sqrt{3}=1sqrt{75}$. And the solution is nonunique! C'mon man!






    share|cite|improve this answer











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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      5












      $begingroup$

      Diagram



      $triangle ABC sim triangle AMM' sim triangle PNM'$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=frac{NM'}{PN}$



      $PM'=PM=2PN$



      $NM'=sqrt{(2PN)^2-PN^2}=PNsqrt3$



      $frac{NM'}{PN}=sqrt3$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=sqrt3$



      $BC=ABsqrt3=5sqrt3$



      $a=5,b=3,color{blue}{a+b=8}$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
        $endgroup$
        – Oscar Lanzi
        Jan 17 at 15:02






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
        $endgroup$
        – Daniel Mathias
        Jan 17 at 15:06
















      5












      $begingroup$

      Diagram



      $triangle ABC sim triangle AMM' sim triangle PNM'$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=frac{NM'}{PN}$



      $PM'=PM=2PN$



      $NM'=sqrt{(2PN)^2-PN^2}=PNsqrt3$



      $frac{NM'}{PN}=sqrt3$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=sqrt3$



      $BC=ABsqrt3=5sqrt3$



      $a=5,b=3,color{blue}{a+b=8}$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
        $endgroup$
        – Oscar Lanzi
        Jan 17 at 15:02






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
        $endgroup$
        – Daniel Mathias
        Jan 17 at 15:06














      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$

      Diagram



      $triangle ABC sim triangle AMM' sim triangle PNM'$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=frac{NM'}{PN}$



      $PM'=PM=2PN$



      $NM'=sqrt{(2PN)^2-PN^2}=PNsqrt3$



      $frac{NM'}{PN}=sqrt3$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=sqrt3$



      $BC=ABsqrt3=5sqrt3$



      $a=5,b=3,color{blue}{a+b=8}$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Diagram



      $triangle ABC sim triangle AMM' sim triangle PNM'$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=frac{NM'}{PN}$



      $PM'=PM=2PN$



      $NM'=sqrt{(2PN)^2-PN^2}=PNsqrt3$



      $frac{NM'}{PN}=sqrt3$



      $frac{BC}{AB}=sqrt3$



      $BC=ABsqrt3=5sqrt3$



      $a=5,b=3,color{blue}{a+b=8}$







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Jan 17 at 14:51









      Daniel MathiasDaniel Mathias

      1,40518




      1,40518












      • $begingroup$
        That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
        $endgroup$
        – Oscar Lanzi
        Jan 17 at 15:02






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
        $endgroup$
        – Daniel Mathias
        Jan 17 at 15:06


















      • $begingroup$
        That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
        $endgroup$
        – Oscar Lanzi
        Jan 17 at 15:02






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
        $endgroup$
        – Daniel Mathias
        Jan 17 at 15:06
















      $begingroup$
      That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
      $endgroup$
      – Oscar Lanzi
      Jan 17 at 15:02




      $begingroup$
      That's strange, I thought the sum would be 76.
      $endgroup$
      – Oscar Lanzi
      Jan 17 at 15:02




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel Mathias
      Jan 17 at 15:06




      $begingroup$
      @OscarLanzi As you pointed out, $5sqrt3=1sqrt{75}$, so $(a,b)=(1,75)$ technically qualifies.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel Mathias
      Jan 17 at 15:06











      1












      $begingroup$

      Let $$angle{BAC}=alpha$$ then
      $$tan(alpha)=frac{PM}{5-PN}=-frac{PN}{frac{a}{2}-2PN}$$ so we get $$frac{a}{2}+5=3PN$$ (1) and $$AD^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ so
      $$left(frac{2PN}{sin(alpha)}+frac{PN}{cos(alpha)}right)^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ and for $PN$ we have $$PN=frac{1}{3}left(frac{a}{2}+5right)$$ and $$cos^2(alpha)=frac{1}{tan^2(alpha)+1)}$$ and $$sin^2(alpha)=frac{tan^2(alpha)}{1+tan^2(alpha)}$$
      Can you finish?






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        Let $$angle{BAC}=alpha$$ then
        $$tan(alpha)=frac{PM}{5-PN}=-frac{PN}{frac{a}{2}-2PN}$$ so we get $$frac{a}{2}+5=3PN$$ (1) and $$AD^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ so
        $$left(frac{2PN}{sin(alpha)}+frac{PN}{cos(alpha)}right)^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ and for $PN$ we have $$PN=frac{1}{3}left(frac{a}{2}+5right)$$ and $$cos^2(alpha)=frac{1}{tan^2(alpha)+1)}$$ and $$sin^2(alpha)=frac{tan^2(alpha)}{1+tan^2(alpha)}$$
        Can you finish?






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Let $$angle{BAC}=alpha$$ then
          $$tan(alpha)=frac{PM}{5-PN}=-frac{PN}{frac{a}{2}-2PN}$$ so we get $$frac{a}{2}+5=3PN$$ (1) and $$AD^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ so
          $$left(frac{2PN}{sin(alpha)}+frac{PN}{cos(alpha)}right)^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ and for $PN$ we have $$PN=frac{1}{3}left(frac{a}{2}+5right)$$ and $$cos^2(alpha)=frac{1}{tan^2(alpha)+1)}$$ and $$sin^2(alpha)=frac{tan^2(alpha)}{1+tan^2(alpha)}$$
          Can you finish?






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Let $$angle{BAC}=alpha$$ then
          $$tan(alpha)=frac{PM}{5-PN}=-frac{PN}{frac{a}{2}-2PN}$$ so we get $$frac{a}{2}+5=3PN$$ (1) and $$AD^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ so
          $$left(frac{2PN}{sin(alpha)}+frac{PN}{cos(alpha)}right)^2=5^2+frac{a^2}{4}$$ and for $PN$ we have $$PN=frac{1}{3}left(frac{a}{2}+5right)$$ and $$cos^2(alpha)=frac{1}{tan^2(alpha)+1)}$$ and $$sin^2(alpha)=frac{tan^2(alpha)}{1+tan^2(alpha)}$$
          Can you finish?







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Jan 17 at 14:14









          Dr. Sonnhard GraubnerDr. Sonnhard Graubner

          79k42867




          79k42867























              0












              $begingroup$

              We can think that $B=(0,0)$. Then $A=(0,5)$ and $C=(asqrt{b},0)$.



              Then we have that $D=(frac{asqrt{b}}{2},0)$.



              Since $P$ is in $AD$, $P=(0,5)+lambda_1 (asqrt{b},-10)$.



              Now, as we can see in the picture, we do not know where $N$ and $M$ are. But by what you said, we have two options for each one:



              $N_1= (0,5)+lambda_2(asqrt{b},-5)$



              $N_2= (0,0)+lambda_3(asqrt{b},0) = (lambda_3 cdot asqrt{b},0)$



              $M_1= (0,0)+lambda_4(0,5)=(0,lambda_4 cdot 5)$



              $M_2= (0,5)+lambda_5(asqrt{b},-5)$



              Now, we have to play computating $PM$ and $PN$ and using your relation.



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                I will edit it now. Thanks!
                $endgroup$
                – idriskameni
                Jan 17 at 13:55


















              0












              $begingroup$

              We can think that $B=(0,0)$. Then $A=(0,5)$ and $C=(asqrt{b},0)$.



              Then we have that $D=(frac{asqrt{b}}{2},0)$.



              Since $P$ is in $AD$, $P=(0,5)+lambda_1 (asqrt{b},-10)$.



              Now, as we can see in the picture, we do not know where $N$ and $M$ are. But by what you said, we have two options for each one:



              $N_1= (0,5)+lambda_2(asqrt{b},-5)$



              $N_2= (0,0)+lambda_3(asqrt{b},0) = (lambda_3 cdot asqrt{b},0)$



              $M_1= (0,0)+lambda_4(0,5)=(0,lambda_4 cdot 5)$



              $M_2= (0,5)+lambda_5(asqrt{b},-5)$



              Now, we have to play computating $PM$ and $PN$ and using your relation.



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                I will edit it now. Thanks!
                $endgroup$
                – idriskameni
                Jan 17 at 13:55
















              0












              0








              0





              $begingroup$

              We can think that $B=(0,0)$. Then $A=(0,5)$ and $C=(asqrt{b},0)$.



              Then we have that $D=(frac{asqrt{b}}{2},0)$.



              Since $P$ is in $AD$, $P=(0,5)+lambda_1 (asqrt{b},-10)$.



              Now, as we can see in the picture, we do not know where $N$ and $M$ are. But by what you said, we have two options for each one:



              $N_1= (0,5)+lambda_2(asqrt{b},-5)$



              $N_2= (0,0)+lambda_3(asqrt{b},0) = (lambda_3 cdot asqrt{b},0)$



              $M_1= (0,0)+lambda_4(0,5)=(0,lambda_4 cdot 5)$



              $M_2= (0,5)+lambda_5(asqrt{b},-5)$



              Now, we have to play computating $PM$ and $PN$ and using your relation.



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              We can think that $B=(0,0)$. Then $A=(0,5)$ and $C=(asqrt{b},0)$.



              Then we have that $D=(frac{asqrt{b}}{2},0)$.



              Since $P$ is in $AD$, $P=(0,5)+lambda_1 (asqrt{b},-10)$.



              Now, as we can see in the picture, we do not know where $N$ and $M$ are. But by what you said, we have two options for each one:



              $N_1= (0,5)+lambda_2(asqrt{b},-5)$



              $N_2= (0,0)+lambda_3(asqrt{b},0) = (lambda_3 cdot asqrt{b},0)$



              $M_1= (0,0)+lambda_4(0,5)=(0,lambda_4 cdot 5)$



              $M_2= (0,5)+lambda_5(asqrt{b},-5)$



              Now, we have to play computating $PM$ and $PN$ and using your relation.



              enter image description here







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Jan 17 at 14:10

























              answered Jan 17 at 13:51









              idriskameniidriskameni

              749321




              749321












              • $begingroup$
                I will edit it now. Thanks!
                $endgroup$
                – idriskameni
                Jan 17 at 13:55




















              • $begingroup$
                I will edit it now. Thanks!
                $endgroup$
                – idriskameni
                Jan 17 at 13:55


















              $begingroup$
              I will edit it now. Thanks!
              $endgroup$
              – idriskameni
              Jan 17 at 13:55






              $begingroup$
              I will edit it now. Thanks!
              $endgroup$
              – idriskameni
              Jan 17 at 13:55













              0












              $begingroup$

              Draw the triangle as instructed. $M$ and $N$ are taken to be the feet if the respective perpendiculars to the triangle's sides, $M$ on $AB$ and $N$ on $AC$.



              Draw $DN'$ parallel to $PN$ with $N'$ also on $AC$. Then $triangle AMP ~ triangle ABD$ and $triangle APB ~ triangle ADN'$, forcing $|PM|/|PN|=|BD|/|DN'|=|CD|/|DN'|=2$. Then right $triangle DN'C$ has a hypoteneyse/leg ratio of $2:1$ hence $angle C$ measures $30°$.



              It follows that right $triangle ABC$ with a $30°$ angle at $C$ also has a $2:1$ ratio of the hypotenuse to the shorter leg, therefore its hypotenuse is $10$ and $|BC|=5sqrt{3}=1sqrt{75}$. And the solution is nonunique! C'mon man!






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                Draw the triangle as instructed. $M$ and $N$ are taken to be the feet if the respective perpendiculars to the triangle's sides, $M$ on $AB$ and $N$ on $AC$.



                Draw $DN'$ parallel to $PN$ with $N'$ also on $AC$. Then $triangle AMP ~ triangle ABD$ and $triangle APB ~ triangle ADN'$, forcing $|PM|/|PN|=|BD|/|DN'|=|CD|/|DN'|=2$. Then right $triangle DN'C$ has a hypoteneyse/leg ratio of $2:1$ hence $angle C$ measures $30°$.



                It follows that right $triangle ABC$ with a $30°$ angle at $C$ also has a $2:1$ ratio of the hypotenuse to the shorter leg, therefore its hypotenuse is $10$ and $|BC|=5sqrt{3}=1sqrt{75}$. And the solution is nonunique! C'mon man!






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Draw the triangle as instructed. $M$ and $N$ are taken to be the feet if the respective perpendiculars to the triangle's sides, $M$ on $AB$ and $N$ on $AC$.



                  Draw $DN'$ parallel to $PN$ with $N'$ also on $AC$. Then $triangle AMP ~ triangle ABD$ and $triangle APB ~ triangle ADN'$, forcing $|PM|/|PN|=|BD|/|DN'|=|CD|/|DN'|=2$. Then right $triangle DN'C$ has a hypoteneyse/leg ratio of $2:1$ hence $angle C$ measures $30°$.



                  It follows that right $triangle ABC$ with a $30°$ angle at $C$ also has a $2:1$ ratio of the hypotenuse to the shorter leg, therefore its hypotenuse is $10$ and $|BC|=5sqrt{3}=1sqrt{75}$. And the solution is nonunique! C'mon man!






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Draw the triangle as instructed. $M$ and $N$ are taken to be the feet if the respective perpendiculars to the triangle's sides, $M$ on $AB$ and $N$ on $AC$.



                  Draw $DN'$ parallel to $PN$ with $N'$ also on $AC$. Then $triangle AMP ~ triangle ABD$ and $triangle APB ~ triangle ADN'$, forcing $|PM|/|PN|=|BD|/|DN'|=|CD|/|DN'|=2$. Then right $triangle DN'C$ has a hypoteneyse/leg ratio of $2:1$ hence $angle C$ measures $30°$.



                  It follows that right $triangle ABC$ with a $30°$ angle at $C$ also has a $2:1$ ratio of the hypotenuse to the shorter leg, therefore its hypotenuse is $10$ and $|BC|=5sqrt{3}=1sqrt{75}$. And the solution is nonunique! C'mon man!







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Jan 17 at 14:59

























                  answered Jan 17 at 14:52









                  Oscar LanziOscar Lanzi

                  13.6k12136




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