are there piano pieces where the hands play in different keys?
Do you know music for piano where the two hands don't have to play in the same key?
composition harmony composers
add a comment |
Do you know music for piano where the two hands don't have to play in the same key?
composition harmony composers
9
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19
add a comment |
Do you know music for piano where the two hands don't have to play in the same key?
composition harmony composers
Do you know music for piano where the two hands don't have to play in the same key?
composition harmony composers
composition harmony composers
asked Jan 24 at 14:14
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,508220
2,508220
9
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19
add a comment |
9
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19
9
9
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Yes.
The term for such music is polytonality.
Keep in mind that polytonality may not necessarily apply to the entire composition. It would not be un-common for a composition to have only parts which are polytonal.
Many polytonal works will be from the early 20th century. You will see some of the composer names in the wiki article: Stravinsky, Bartok, Milhaud, Ives, etc.
Here is one the cited examples from Milhaud: Copacabana. Right hand is in B
major and the left hand is G
major.
Some things to keep in mind:
- Each part separately is pretty clear and simple (diatonic within their respective tonalities.)
- The listener should be able to hear each part is in a separate key. From examples I have seen, that separation is largely contingent on the clarity of the separate parts. You should need to strain to hear the two keys.
- Some counterpoint/rhythmic contrast between parts will help with perceiving the separation.
- A large tonal contrast help with separation. The difference between
G
(one sharp) andB
(5 sharps) is 4 accidentals. That's a pretty large contrast of tones. It's hard forG
to be confused withB
. But, compareC
andF
major. The difference is only 1 flat. When combining those two keys the results could sound like extended harmonies of 9th or 11th chords, or perhaps aC
tonic with a variable natural^7
orb^7
scale degree. A similar point could be made about blues tonality. It isn't polytonal, it's a idiomatic blending of major and minor and 'blue' notes, but clearly there is only one tonic.
That's probably the essential point with polytonality: you really need to hear two (or more?) simultaneous tonics.
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
|
show 2 more comments
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos Vol. IV
99) cm / am
101) am / Ebm
103) B / am
105) em / c#m (both pentatonic)
There are some others: It's obvious that two hands play in different keys, even it is not signed as such.
But the title will say it clear.
add a comment |
Surprised that there's been no mention of the Blues, where often the left hand (accompaniment) is played in a major key, while the right hand is played, in a fashion, in the parallel minor, more or less, with the addition of a tritonal b5, putting it into maybe an unknown key.
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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active
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active
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Yes.
The term for such music is polytonality.
Keep in mind that polytonality may not necessarily apply to the entire composition. It would not be un-common for a composition to have only parts which are polytonal.
Many polytonal works will be from the early 20th century. You will see some of the composer names in the wiki article: Stravinsky, Bartok, Milhaud, Ives, etc.
Here is one the cited examples from Milhaud: Copacabana. Right hand is in B
major and the left hand is G
major.
Some things to keep in mind:
- Each part separately is pretty clear and simple (diatonic within their respective tonalities.)
- The listener should be able to hear each part is in a separate key. From examples I have seen, that separation is largely contingent on the clarity of the separate parts. You should need to strain to hear the two keys.
- Some counterpoint/rhythmic contrast between parts will help with perceiving the separation.
- A large tonal contrast help with separation. The difference between
G
(one sharp) andB
(5 sharps) is 4 accidentals. That's a pretty large contrast of tones. It's hard forG
to be confused withB
. But, compareC
andF
major. The difference is only 1 flat. When combining those two keys the results could sound like extended harmonies of 9th or 11th chords, or perhaps aC
tonic with a variable natural^7
orb^7
scale degree. A similar point could be made about blues tonality. It isn't polytonal, it's a idiomatic blending of major and minor and 'blue' notes, but clearly there is only one tonic.
That's probably the essential point with polytonality: you really need to hear two (or more?) simultaneous tonics.
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
|
show 2 more comments
Yes.
The term for such music is polytonality.
Keep in mind that polytonality may not necessarily apply to the entire composition. It would not be un-common for a composition to have only parts which are polytonal.
Many polytonal works will be from the early 20th century. You will see some of the composer names in the wiki article: Stravinsky, Bartok, Milhaud, Ives, etc.
Here is one the cited examples from Milhaud: Copacabana. Right hand is in B
major and the left hand is G
major.
Some things to keep in mind:
- Each part separately is pretty clear and simple (diatonic within their respective tonalities.)
- The listener should be able to hear each part is in a separate key. From examples I have seen, that separation is largely contingent on the clarity of the separate parts. You should need to strain to hear the two keys.
- Some counterpoint/rhythmic contrast between parts will help with perceiving the separation.
- A large tonal contrast help with separation. The difference between
G
(one sharp) andB
(5 sharps) is 4 accidentals. That's a pretty large contrast of tones. It's hard forG
to be confused withB
. But, compareC
andF
major. The difference is only 1 flat. When combining those two keys the results could sound like extended harmonies of 9th or 11th chords, or perhaps aC
tonic with a variable natural^7
orb^7
scale degree. A similar point could be made about blues tonality. It isn't polytonal, it's a idiomatic blending of major and minor and 'blue' notes, but clearly there is only one tonic.
That's probably the essential point with polytonality: you really need to hear two (or more?) simultaneous tonics.
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
|
show 2 more comments
Yes.
The term for such music is polytonality.
Keep in mind that polytonality may not necessarily apply to the entire composition. It would not be un-common for a composition to have only parts which are polytonal.
Many polytonal works will be from the early 20th century. You will see some of the composer names in the wiki article: Stravinsky, Bartok, Milhaud, Ives, etc.
Here is one the cited examples from Milhaud: Copacabana. Right hand is in B
major and the left hand is G
major.
Some things to keep in mind:
- Each part separately is pretty clear and simple (diatonic within their respective tonalities.)
- The listener should be able to hear each part is in a separate key. From examples I have seen, that separation is largely contingent on the clarity of the separate parts. You should need to strain to hear the two keys.
- Some counterpoint/rhythmic contrast between parts will help with perceiving the separation.
- A large tonal contrast help with separation. The difference between
G
(one sharp) andB
(5 sharps) is 4 accidentals. That's a pretty large contrast of tones. It's hard forG
to be confused withB
. But, compareC
andF
major. The difference is only 1 flat. When combining those two keys the results could sound like extended harmonies of 9th or 11th chords, or perhaps aC
tonic with a variable natural^7
orb^7
scale degree. A similar point could be made about blues tonality. It isn't polytonal, it's a idiomatic blending of major and minor and 'blue' notes, but clearly there is only one tonic.
That's probably the essential point with polytonality: you really need to hear two (or more?) simultaneous tonics.
Yes.
The term for such music is polytonality.
Keep in mind that polytonality may not necessarily apply to the entire composition. It would not be un-common for a composition to have only parts which are polytonal.
Many polytonal works will be from the early 20th century. You will see some of the composer names in the wiki article: Stravinsky, Bartok, Milhaud, Ives, etc.
Here is one the cited examples from Milhaud: Copacabana. Right hand is in B
major and the left hand is G
major.
Some things to keep in mind:
- Each part separately is pretty clear and simple (diatonic within their respective tonalities.)
- The listener should be able to hear each part is in a separate key. From examples I have seen, that separation is largely contingent on the clarity of the separate parts. You should need to strain to hear the two keys.
- Some counterpoint/rhythmic contrast between parts will help with perceiving the separation.
- A large tonal contrast help with separation. The difference between
G
(one sharp) andB
(5 sharps) is 4 accidentals. That's a pretty large contrast of tones. It's hard forG
to be confused withB
. But, compareC
andF
major. The difference is only 1 flat. When combining those two keys the results could sound like extended harmonies of 9th or 11th chords, or perhaps aC
tonic with a variable natural^7
orb^7
scale degree. A similar point could be made about blues tonality. It isn't polytonal, it's a idiomatic blending of major and minor and 'blue' notes, but clearly there is only one tonic.
That's probably the essential point with polytonality: you really need to hear two (or more?) simultaneous tonics.
edited Jan 24 at 21:56
answered Jan 24 at 16:27
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
8,524532
8,524532
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
|
show 2 more comments
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
1
1
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
There is polytonality (or maybe polymodality according to you reference) even in popular music. This song was a summer hit here in Brazil last year: youtube.com/watch?v=lYxcW8jtFw0. Melody is in Ab major, and harmony in Ab minor.
– coconochao
Jan 24 at 17:53
1
1
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
FWIW, I have sometimes played with taking a given piece of music - like a classical piece with simple alberti bass or a familiar song like Jingle Bells - and just transpose one of the hands to hear a "polytonal" rendition. Kinda silly, kinda fun.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:54
2
2
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
@coconochao - modal mixture is a little semantic as far as polytonality is concerned.
– jjmusicnotes
Jan 24 at 19:55
2
2
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
At sound checks, I like to play 'The Entertainer' r.h. in original C, l.h. in C#. It works - in a weird way. And if anyone comments, I ask if the piano's been tuned lately..!
– Tim
Jan 24 at 19:58
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
Do you know the story about Charles Ives' father who was a band leader? He would have two marching bands play in different keys. Apparently an influence on the son's crazy music.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 20:12
|
show 2 more comments
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos Vol. IV
99) cm / am
101) am / Ebm
103) B / am
105) em / c#m (both pentatonic)
There are some others: It's obvious that two hands play in different keys, even it is not signed as such.
But the title will say it clear.
add a comment |
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos Vol. IV
99) cm / am
101) am / Ebm
103) B / am
105) em / c#m (both pentatonic)
There are some others: It's obvious that two hands play in different keys, even it is not signed as such.
But the title will say it clear.
add a comment |
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos Vol. IV
99) cm / am
101) am / Ebm
103) B / am
105) em / c#m (both pentatonic)
There are some others: It's obvious that two hands play in different keys, even it is not signed as such.
But the title will say it clear.
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos Vol. IV
99) cm / am
101) am / Ebm
103) B / am
105) em / c#m (both pentatonic)
There are some others: It's obvious that two hands play in different keys, even it is not signed as such.
But the title will say it clear.
answered Jan 24 at 14:14
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,508220
2,508220
add a comment |
add a comment |
Surprised that there's been no mention of the Blues, where often the left hand (accompaniment) is played in a major key, while the right hand is played, in a fashion, in the parallel minor, more or less, with the addition of a tritonal b5, putting it into maybe an unknown key.
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
add a comment |
Surprised that there's been no mention of the Blues, where often the left hand (accompaniment) is played in a major key, while the right hand is played, in a fashion, in the parallel minor, more or less, with the addition of a tritonal b5, putting it into maybe an unknown key.
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
add a comment |
Surprised that there's been no mention of the Blues, where often the left hand (accompaniment) is played in a major key, while the right hand is played, in a fashion, in the parallel minor, more or less, with the addition of a tritonal b5, putting it into maybe an unknown key.
Surprised that there's been no mention of the Blues, where often the left hand (accompaniment) is played in a major key, while the right hand is played, in a fashion, in the parallel minor, more or less, with the addition of a tritonal b5, putting it into maybe an unknown key.
answered Jan 24 at 19:42
TimTim
101k10104257
101k10104257
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
add a comment |
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
I just made an edit to my post, re. blues. In the strict academic sense it's not polytonal. There aren't two tonics simultaneously.
– Michael Curtis
Jan 24 at 19:49
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
@MichaelCurtis - OP's question asks - different keys.
– Tim
Jan 24 at 20:44
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
up vote for mentioning the blues! I always thought improvising in G above E or C above A was my invention ;)
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 24 at 21:30
add a comment |
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9
I've heard people play that way, but don't think it was written as such...
– Tim
Jan 24 at 14:57
I was tempted to add a trivia tag, since I can recognize no practical impact of the question, but there seems to be none.
– guidot
Jan 24 at 22:26
@guidot I think a question asking about the existence of polytonality is a little more than "trivia", considering it has sparked an entire movement of contemporary composing...
– TreFox
Jan 25 at 1:25
@TreFox: I would agree more, if the question contained at least a hint of a level beyond trivia. Note that it is a closed question, where a simple yes would be a valid answer.
– guidot
Jan 25 at 8:19