A nonsplit short exact sequence of abelian groups with $B cong A oplus C$
A homework problem asked to find a short exact sequence of abelian groups
$$0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$$ such that $$B cong A oplus C$$ although the sequence does not split.
My solution:
$$0 rightarrow mathbb{Z} overset{i}{rightarrow}
mathbb{Z} oplus (mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} overset{p}{rightarrow}
(mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} rightarrow 0$$
with $i(x)=(2x,0,0,dotsc)$ and $p(x,y_1,y_2,dotsc)=(x+2mathbb{Z},y_1,y_2,dotsc)$.
My new questions:
- Is there an example with finite/finitely generated abelian groups?
- If the answer to $(1)$ is negative, will it help to pass to general $R$-modules for some ring $R$?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups exact-sequence
add a comment |
A homework problem asked to find a short exact sequence of abelian groups
$$0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$$ such that $$B cong A oplus C$$ although the sequence does not split.
My solution:
$$0 rightarrow mathbb{Z} overset{i}{rightarrow}
mathbb{Z} oplus (mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} overset{p}{rightarrow}
(mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} rightarrow 0$$
with $i(x)=(2x,0,0,dotsc)$ and $p(x,y_1,y_2,dotsc)=(x+2mathbb{Z},y_1,y_2,dotsc)$.
My new questions:
- Is there an example with finite/finitely generated abelian groups?
- If the answer to $(1)$ is negative, will it help to pass to general $R$-modules for some ring $R$?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups exact-sequence
4
FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55
add a comment |
A homework problem asked to find a short exact sequence of abelian groups
$$0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$$ such that $$B cong A oplus C$$ although the sequence does not split.
My solution:
$$0 rightarrow mathbb{Z} overset{i}{rightarrow}
mathbb{Z} oplus (mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} overset{p}{rightarrow}
(mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} rightarrow 0$$
with $i(x)=(2x,0,0,dotsc)$ and $p(x,y_1,y_2,dotsc)=(x+2mathbb{Z},y_1,y_2,dotsc)$.
My new questions:
- Is there an example with finite/finitely generated abelian groups?
- If the answer to $(1)$ is negative, will it help to pass to general $R$-modules for some ring $R$?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups exact-sequence
A homework problem asked to find a short exact sequence of abelian groups
$$0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$$ such that $$B cong A oplus C$$ although the sequence does not split.
My solution:
$$0 rightarrow mathbb{Z} overset{i}{rightarrow}
mathbb{Z} oplus (mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} overset{p}{rightarrow}
(mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z})^{mathbb{N}} rightarrow 0$$
with $i(x)=(2x,0,0,dotsc)$ and $p(x,y_1,y_2,dotsc)=(x+2mathbb{Z},y_1,y_2,dotsc)$.
My new questions:
- Is there an example with finite/finitely generated abelian groups?
- If the answer to $(1)$ is negative, will it help to pass to general $R$-modules for some ring $R$?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups exact-sequence
abstract-algebra abelian-groups exact-sequence
edited Jun 25 '16 at 13:30
Watson
15.8k92970
15.8k92970
asked Apr 22 '12 at 19:07
user3533
2,0051726
2,0051726
4
FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55
add a comment |
4
FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55
4
4
FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55
FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
There is no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated abelian groups. There is, more generally, no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated modules over any noetherian ring $R$.
To see this, consider the exact sequence
$$0rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(C,A)rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(B,A)rightarrow mathrm{Hom}(A,A).$$
The original sequence splits if and only if this sequence is exact on the right. If $A$, $B$ and $C$ are of finite length as modules, this follows immediately just by counting lengths. Otherwise, it's enough to show exactness after localizing and completing at an arbitrary prime $P$, and for this it's enough to show exactness after tensoring with $R/P^n$, and for this you can assume the lengths are finite, which is the case we've already dealt with.
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
|
show 3 more comments
I'm sorry, but my answer uses Ext groups, which may not be in the scope of your course.
I don't know of a simple example with finitely generated abelian groups for the following reason: if $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow E rightarrow mathbb Z / n mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ is an extension represented by $r+n mathbb Z in operatorname{Ext}^1(mathbb Z,mathbb Z/nmathbb Z)cong mathbb Z/nmathbb Z$, then one can show that $E cong mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z/dmathbb Z$ where $d$ is the highest common factor of $r$ and $n$. If you assume this sequence doesn't split, then $r$ is not a multiple of $n$ and $d<n$, so the middle term will never be isomorphic to the direct sum of the of the first and third.
However, you can get a simple example using modules in the following way. Let $G=langle grangle$ be an infinite cyclic group and let $mathbb Z G$ be the associated commutative group ring. Consider $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ a short exact sequence of $mathbb Z G$-modules where the first map is inclusion into the first component and the second map is projection onto the second. Let $g$ act on $mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z$ by
$bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&1\ 0&1
end{smallmatrix} bigr)$. Then $operatorname{Ext}^1_{mathbb Z G}(mathbb Z, mathbb Z) cong mathbb Z$ and this extension corresponds to $1$. If you let $g$ act by $bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&n\ 0&1 end{smallmatrix} bigr)$ it corresponds to $n$. As long as $n>0$ this is a non-split short exact sequence where the direct sum of the outside terms are isomorphic to the middle one. However, this example is far from elementary, and I apologize for that.
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
add a comment |
See the answer in this question:
In R-Mod Category, example for $Bcong A oplus C nRightarrow 0 to A to B to C to0$ splits.
It's similar to WillO's.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
There is no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated abelian groups. There is, more generally, no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated modules over any noetherian ring $R$.
To see this, consider the exact sequence
$$0rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(C,A)rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(B,A)rightarrow mathrm{Hom}(A,A).$$
The original sequence splits if and only if this sequence is exact on the right. If $A$, $B$ and $C$ are of finite length as modules, this follows immediately just by counting lengths. Otherwise, it's enough to show exactness after localizing and completing at an arbitrary prime $P$, and for this it's enough to show exactness after tensoring with $R/P^n$, and for this you can assume the lengths are finite, which is the case we've already dealt with.
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
|
show 3 more comments
There is no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated abelian groups. There is, more generally, no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated modules over any noetherian ring $R$.
To see this, consider the exact sequence
$$0rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(C,A)rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(B,A)rightarrow mathrm{Hom}(A,A).$$
The original sequence splits if and only if this sequence is exact on the right. If $A$, $B$ and $C$ are of finite length as modules, this follows immediately just by counting lengths. Otherwise, it's enough to show exactness after localizing and completing at an arbitrary prime $P$, and for this it's enough to show exactness after tensoring with $R/P^n$, and for this you can assume the lengths are finite, which is the case we've already dealt with.
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
|
show 3 more comments
There is no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated abelian groups. There is, more generally, no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated modules over any noetherian ring $R$.
To see this, consider the exact sequence
$$0rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(C,A)rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(B,A)rightarrow mathrm{Hom}(A,A).$$
The original sequence splits if and only if this sequence is exact on the right. If $A$, $B$ and $C$ are of finite length as modules, this follows immediately just by counting lengths. Otherwise, it's enough to show exactness after localizing and completing at an arbitrary prime $P$, and for this it's enough to show exactness after tensoring with $R/P^n$, and for this you can assume the lengths are finite, which is the case we've already dealt with.
There is no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated abelian groups. There is, more generally, no counterexample with $A,B,C$ finitely generated modules over any noetherian ring $R$.
To see this, consider the exact sequence
$$0rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(C,A)rightarrowmathrm{Hom}(B,A)rightarrow mathrm{Hom}(A,A).$$
The original sequence splits if and only if this sequence is exact on the right. If $A$, $B$ and $C$ are of finite length as modules, this follows immediately just by counting lengths. Otherwise, it's enough to show exactness after localizing and completing at an arbitrary prime $P$, and for this it's enough to show exactness after tensoring with $R/P^n$, and for this you can assume the lengths are finite, which is the case we've already dealt with.
edited Apr 8 '17 at 16:21
user26857
39.2k123983
39.2k123983
answered Aug 8 '14 at 21:23
WillO
2,3281321
2,3281321
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
|
show 3 more comments
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
Sorry, I'm quite unfamiliar with techniques on localization and completion you're referring to. Do you have any reference?
– Frank Science
Jul 1 '16 at 13:48
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
@FrankScience: Any standard textbook on commutative algebra will do. My favorite is Atiyah-MacDonald.
– WillO
Jul 1 '16 at 21:45
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
I didn't read last chapters of Atiyah-Macdonald (that involves things like Artin-Rees). By localization and completion, I mean using this technique to reduce general cases to Artinian cases, which I cannot remember that appears in Atiyah-Macdonald.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:49
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
And on this specific problem, we know that exactness is stalk-local, and I believe that under some finiteness condition (like Noetherian, finitely presented, etc), split-ness is also stalk-local (since we have some base-change property of $operatorname{Ext}$, maybe one can find some elementary proof, say passage from stalks to a fundamental open set). But for completion, I know nothing, except that it's an exact functor (under some finiteness condition).
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:52
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
@FrankScience : Once you've reduced to $R$ local, with maximal ideal $P$, the completion $hat{R}$ is faithfully flat over $R$, which means that a sequence of $R$-modules is exact if and only if it becomes exact after tensoring with $hat{R}$.. But $hat{R}$ is an inverse limit of the $R/P^k$, and exactness behaves well with respect to inverse limits, so that exactness mod $P^k$ for each $k$ (which follows from counting lengths) implies exactness over the completion, as needed.
– WillO
Jul 2 '16 at 16:41
|
show 3 more comments
I'm sorry, but my answer uses Ext groups, which may not be in the scope of your course.
I don't know of a simple example with finitely generated abelian groups for the following reason: if $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow E rightarrow mathbb Z / n mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ is an extension represented by $r+n mathbb Z in operatorname{Ext}^1(mathbb Z,mathbb Z/nmathbb Z)cong mathbb Z/nmathbb Z$, then one can show that $E cong mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z/dmathbb Z$ where $d$ is the highest common factor of $r$ and $n$. If you assume this sequence doesn't split, then $r$ is not a multiple of $n$ and $d<n$, so the middle term will never be isomorphic to the direct sum of the of the first and third.
However, you can get a simple example using modules in the following way. Let $G=langle grangle$ be an infinite cyclic group and let $mathbb Z G$ be the associated commutative group ring. Consider $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ a short exact sequence of $mathbb Z G$-modules where the first map is inclusion into the first component and the second map is projection onto the second. Let $g$ act on $mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z$ by
$bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&1\ 0&1
end{smallmatrix} bigr)$. Then $operatorname{Ext}^1_{mathbb Z G}(mathbb Z, mathbb Z) cong mathbb Z$ and this extension corresponds to $1$. If you let $g$ act by $bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&n\ 0&1 end{smallmatrix} bigr)$ it corresponds to $n$. As long as $n>0$ this is a non-split short exact sequence where the direct sum of the outside terms are isomorphic to the middle one. However, this example is far from elementary, and I apologize for that.
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
add a comment |
I'm sorry, but my answer uses Ext groups, which may not be in the scope of your course.
I don't know of a simple example with finitely generated abelian groups for the following reason: if $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow E rightarrow mathbb Z / n mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ is an extension represented by $r+n mathbb Z in operatorname{Ext}^1(mathbb Z,mathbb Z/nmathbb Z)cong mathbb Z/nmathbb Z$, then one can show that $E cong mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z/dmathbb Z$ where $d$ is the highest common factor of $r$ and $n$. If you assume this sequence doesn't split, then $r$ is not a multiple of $n$ and $d<n$, so the middle term will never be isomorphic to the direct sum of the of the first and third.
However, you can get a simple example using modules in the following way. Let $G=langle grangle$ be an infinite cyclic group and let $mathbb Z G$ be the associated commutative group ring. Consider $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ a short exact sequence of $mathbb Z G$-modules where the first map is inclusion into the first component and the second map is projection onto the second. Let $g$ act on $mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z$ by
$bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&1\ 0&1
end{smallmatrix} bigr)$. Then $operatorname{Ext}^1_{mathbb Z G}(mathbb Z, mathbb Z) cong mathbb Z$ and this extension corresponds to $1$. If you let $g$ act by $bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&n\ 0&1 end{smallmatrix} bigr)$ it corresponds to $n$. As long as $n>0$ this is a non-split short exact sequence where the direct sum of the outside terms are isomorphic to the middle one. However, this example is far from elementary, and I apologize for that.
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
add a comment |
I'm sorry, but my answer uses Ext groups, which may not be in the scope of your course.
I don't know of a simple example with finitely generated abelian groups for the following reason: if $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow E rightarrow mathbb Z / n mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ is an extension represented by $r+n mathbb Z in operatorname{Ext}^1(mathbb Z,mathbb Z/nmathbb Z)cong mathbb Z/nmathbb Z$, then one can show that $E cong mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z/dmathbb Z$ where $d$ is the highest common factor of $r$ and $n$. If you assume this sequence doesn't split, then $r$ is not a multiple of $n$ and $d<n$, so the middle term will never be isomorphic to the direct sum of the of the first and third.
However, you can get a simple example using modules in the following way. Let $G=langle grangle$ be an infinite cyclic group and let $mathbb Z G$ be the associated commutative group ring. Consider $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ a short exact sequence of $mathbb Z G$-modules where the first map is inclusion into the first component and the second map is projection onto the second. Let $g$ act on $mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z$ by
$bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&1\ 0&1
end{smallmatrix} bigr)$. Then $operatorname{Ext}^1_{mathbb Z G}(mathbb Z, mathbb Z) cong mathbb Z$ and this extension corresponds to $1$. If you let $g$ act by $bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&n\ 0&1 end{smallmatrix} bigr)$ it corresponds to $n$. As long as $n>0$ this is a non-split short exact sequence where the direct sum of the outside terms are isomorphic to the middle one. However, this example is far from elementary, and I apologize for that.
I'm sorry, but my answer uses Ext groups, which may not be in the scope of your course.
I don't know of a simple example with finitely generated abelian groups for the following reason: if $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow E rightarrow mathbb Z / n mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ is an extension represented by $r+n mathbb Z in operatorname{Ext}^1(mathbb Z,mathbb Z/nmathbb Z)cong mathbb Z/nmathbb Z$, then one can show that $E cong mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z/dmathbb Z$ where $d$ is the highest common factor of $r$ and $n$. If you assume this sequence doesn't split, then $r$ is not a multiple of $n$ and $d<n$, so the middle term will never be isomorphic to the direct sum of the of the first and third.
However, you can get a simple example using modules in the following way. Let $G=langle grangle$ be an infinite cyclic group and let $mathbb Z G$ be the associated commutative group ring. Consider $0 rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z rightarrow mathbb Z rightarrow 0$ a short exact sequence of $mathbb Z G$-modules where the first map is inclusion into the first component and the second map is projection onto the second. Let $g$ act on $mathbb Z oplus mathbb Z$ by
$bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&1\ 0&1
end{smallmatrix} bigr)$. Then $operatorname{Ext}^1_{mathbb Z G}(mathbb Z, mathbb Z) cong mathbb Z$ and this extension corresponds to $1$. If you let $g$ act by $bigl(begin{smallmatrix}
1&n\ 0&1 end{smallmatrix} bigr)$ it corresponds to $n$. As long as $n>0$ this is a non-split short exact sequence where the direct sum of the outside terms are isomorphic to the middle one. However, this example is far from elementary, and I apologize for that.
edited Sep 1 '13 at 21:58
user26857
answered Apr 22 '12 at 22:47
Parsa
1,689915
1,689915
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
add a comment |
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
I should add that there is a 1-1 correspondence between elements of $Ext^1(C,A)$ and short exact sequences $0 rightarrow A rightarrow B rightarrow C rightarrow 0$ and this sequence splits iff it corresponds to the $0$ element of the Ext group.
– Parsa
Apr 22 '12 at 22:50
1
1
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
This looks great, but I don't yet have the tools to understand it. When I do, I will verify it's correct and (probably) accept it. Thank you very much!
– user3533
Apr 30 '12 at 20:34
3
3
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
In your SES of $mathbb{Z}G$-modules, the middle term is isomorphic to the direct sum of the other two as groups, but not as $mathbb{Z}G$-modules: $g$ acts trivially on the left and right copies of $mathbb{Z}$, but not on the middle $mathbb{Z}oplusmathbb{Z}$.
– Julian Rosen
Dec 8 '15 at 5:02
4
4
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
I don't think the last example is valid. You should study the split-ness of $0tomathbb Ztomathbb Zoplusmathbb Ztomathbb Zto0$ in the Abelian category of Abelian groups, not in the category of $mathbb ZG$-modules.
– Frank Science
Jul 2 '16 at 3:58
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
JulianRosen and FrankScience have explained why this example is wrong. My answer explains why it never had a chance to be right.
– WillO
Aug 9 '17 at 3:48
add a comment |
See the answer in this question:
In R-Mod Category, example for $Bcong A oplus C nRightarrow 0 to A to B to C to0$ splits.
It's similar to WillO's.
add a comment |
See the answer in this question:
In R-Mod Category, example for $Bcong A oplus C nRightarrow 0 to A to B to C to0$ splits.
It's similar to WillO's.
add a comment |
See the answer in this question:
In R-Mod Category, example for $Bcong A oplus C nRightarrow 0 to A to B to C to0$ splits.
It's similar to WillO's.
See the answer in this question:
In R-Mod Category, example for $Bcong A oplus C nRightarrow 0 to A to B to C to0$ splits.
It's similar to WillO's.
edited Dec 26 '18 at 21:29
user26857
39.2k123983
39.2k123983
answered Dec 25 '18 at 18:23
Andrews
384317
384317
add a comment |
add a comment |
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FYI: A different example, still with infinite groups, is Example 6.35 of Rotman's Advanced Modern Algebra (2nd ed., AMS).
– KCd
Apr 22 '12 at 21:55